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  1. #1
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    Default Why Is Peter Rejecting The Symbiote Seen As A Bad Thing By Some?

    Every once in a while, I come across this assertion that Peter rejecting the symbiote makes him come across like a jerk. This seems strange to me because, even without the symbiote corrupting Peter's morality (as adaptations tend to depict it) him not wanting to sacrifice his individuality seems like a pretty reasonable justification to get rid of it.

  2. #2
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    I mean, Venom does have a power boost. And in the comics, it wasn't even that bad at that point. It just feels like Pete didn't give our favorite little slimeball a chance.

    That being said, I'm not someone who thinks Pete was totally in the wrong.

  3. #3
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    The alien that would become Venom was just kind of into being Spider-man that it'd even possess Peter while he was sleeping to go and fight crime. While it initially didn't give him a strength boost ("unlimited webbing" and some mild shape shifting for clothing) it did gave him a power boost. Mostly him rejecting it comes from finding out the suit was actually alive. Subsequent rejections come from Peter's dealings with Venom and its offspring.

    Part of the hangup the alien had with Peter was that it was rejected on grounds that it was a living being and all things considered worked out mostly fine up until Peter learned of it. It's largely why adaptations of it and subsequent retcons go the extra mile and show it having a negative affect on Peter. Bear in mind that Venom was predominantly a villain and anti-hero so the suit's more negative qualities and hints about Venom got added to make the separation less awkward. At the end of the day it's kind of an awkward situation that neither party looks good in and Venom got popular so it makes things a bit more palatable to hint about what it would become later as Venom.
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  4. #4
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Peter was right to reject symbiosis. That said, could he have handled things more delicately after the symbiote had been safely contained? Possibly. The story evolved a bit after his actions and it could evolve again. Web of Spider-Man #1 implied the symbiote had the capacity to learn from humanity, so much so that it sacrificed itself to save Peter. That has often been overlooked in light of the symbiote subsequently merging with Eddie Brock and vowing revenge.

    Anyway, it would be ludicrous to judge Peter for not wanting to be bonded to an alien organism that was taking his body out for joyrides while he slept. But you could argue that with a little perspective, Peter might have attempted to find a way to communicate his logic to the symbiote, a sentient being that he was (unwittingly) responsible for even if he didn't know what he was taking on at the time. Or, you know, just checked in with Reed Richards to see how things were going. These are the kinds of mistakes Peter tends to make, perfectly understandable oversights that have unforeseen consequences.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    Peter was right to reject symbiosis. That said, could he have handled things more delicately after the symbiote had been safely contained? Possibly. The story evolved a bit after his actions and it could evolve again. Web of Spider-Man #1 implied the symbiote had the capacity to learn from humanity, so much so that it sacrificed itself to save Peter. That has often been overlooked in light of the symbiote subsequently merging with Eddie Brock and vowing revenge.

    Anyway, it would be ludicrous to judge Peter for not wanting to be bonded to an alien organism that was taking his body out for joyrides while he slept. But you could argue that with a little perspective, Peter might have attempted to find a way to communicate his logic to the symbiote, a sentient being that he was (unwittingly) responsible for even if he didn't know what he was taking on at the time. Or, you know, just checked in with Reed Richards to see how things were going. These are the kinds of mistakes Peter tends to make, perfectly understandable oversights that have unforeseen consequences.
    Yeah, that's a good point. I just figured there were better ways he could have communicated with it than automatically rejecting it in disgust. It was a sentient/sapient being that he had (unwittingly) taken away from its world and then left stranded in a strange world that it didn't easily fit into, as Spider-Man: Reign (whatever you might think of certain moments/scenes in it) actually addressed.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  6. #6
    Amazing Member Cornbread11's Avatar
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    Wait....there are people going around saying him rejecting the symbiote is bad??? But I thought it always brought out the worst in him or was that something that the cartoons established

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornbread11 View Post
    Wait....there are people going around saying him rejecting the symbiote is bad??? But I thought it always brought out the worst in him or was that something that the cartoons established
    That was predominantly something the cartoons established.

    It was basically a quick and easy way to explain why Peter gets rid of it beyond the awkwardness of Peter having unknowingly worn an alien for awhile (most shows don't adapt Battleworld or have enough time to build up the reveal it's alive). At the time this trend started Venom was already an established character, and so of course the shows would want to use Venom whom initially at the time had a huge amount of popularity. So outright making the alien a possessive evil monster was an easy way of doing that. It simply made the transition to Venom a lot easier. It should also be noted that this is also where the strength enhancement comes from. Venom mimicked Spider-man's powers and Eddie Brock was already a body builder (which is why Venom is bulky). As well as making Peter more of a jackass when he had it was also another reason he wanted to ditch it which is further exemplified in Spider-man 3.

    So in essence the strength enhancement, anger issues, bulkiness, and the alien outright being a threat is all things that come from the TV show and then retconned into the comics for one reason or another.
    -----------------------------------
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  8. #8
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    Yeah, as we see, when Venom was actually introduced, they weren’t the abusive, manipulative little sociopath we know and love. They were just a simple little alien sludge ball who wanted to help their host.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    Yeah, as we see, when Venom was actually introduced, they weren’t the abusive, manipulative little sociopath we know and love. They were just a simple little alien sludge ball who wanted to help their host.
    And one could argue that Peter's rejection might well have played a part in that, as it was desperate to hold onto Eddie Brock and not be rejected by him, too. Of course, that's also a little more complicated, as Brock didn't need the symbiote's help to blame Spider-Man for what he'd wrought upon himself by not double-checking his sources for factual accuracy.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    Didn't the symbiote start choking peter making it hard for peter to breathe as soon as he found out it was alive? That's one of the main reasons reed and the torch had to get it off of him so fast.

    [IMG][/IMG]

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    And one could argue that Peter's rejection might well have played a part in that, as it was desperate to hold onto Eddie Brock and not be rejected by him, too. Of course, that's also a little more complicated, as Brock didn't need the symbiote's help to blame Spider-Man for what he'd wrought upon himself by not double-checking his sources for factual accuracy.
    Oh yeah. Part of the fun of Venom and Eddie comes from the fact that they're both unstable and incredibly toxic individuals who really shouldn't be in a relationship.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaastra View Post
    Didn't the symbiote start choking peter making it hard for peter to breathe as soon as he found out it was alive? That's one of the main reasons reed and the torch had to get it off of him so fast.

    [IMG][/IMG]
    Ya see, this actually would be a problem. It's sort of funny, but it's also horrifying, especially given that by standards of today's Venom, this is it being nice

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaastra View Post
    Didn't the symbiote start choking peter making it hard for peter to breathe as soon as he found out it was alive? That's one of the main reasons reed and the torch had to get it off of him so fast.

    [IMG][/IMG]
    Yeah, this is creepy. I didn't know that the symbiote didn't amplify his worst part, but having a parasite like that even if it's not hostile is creepy

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    Peter was right to reject symbiosis. That said, could he have handled things more delicately after the symbiote had been safely contained? Possibly. The story evolved a bit after his actions and it could evolve again. Web of Spider-Man #1 implied the symbiote had the capacity to learn from humanity, so much so that it sacrificed itself to save Peter. That has often been overlooked in light of the symbiote subsequently merging with Eddie Brock and vowing revenge.

    Anyway, it would be ludicrous to judge Peter for not wanting to be bonded to an alien organism that was taking his body out for joyrides while he slept. But you could argue that with a little perspective, Peter might have attempted to find a way to communicate his logic to the symbiote, a sentient being that he was (unwittingly) responsible for even if he didn't know what he was taking on at the time. Or, you know, just checked in with Reed Richards to see how things were going. These are the kinds of mistakes Peter tends to make, perfectly understandable oversights that have unforeseen consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Yeah, that's a good point. I just figured there were better ways he could have communicated with it than automatically rejecting it in disgust. It was a sentient/sapient being that he had (unwittingly) taken away from its world and then left stranded in a strange world that it didn't easily fit into, as Spider-Man: Reign (whatever you might think of certain moments/scenes in it) actually addressed.
    But that cuts both ways. Why didn't the symbiote try to communicate with Peter? He didn't even realize it was alive until much later. After all the deception and violation of his body is it really so unreasonable for him to not want to go near it?

  14. #14
    Amazing Member Cornbread11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    That was predominantly something the cartoons established.

    It was basically a quick and easy way to explain why Peter gets rid of it beyond the awkwardness of Peter having unknowingly worn an alien for awhile (most shows don't adapt Battleworld or have enough time to build up the reveal it's alive). At the time this trend started Venom was already an established character, and so of course the shows would want to use Venom whom initially at the time had a huge amount of popularity. So outright making the alien a possessive evil monster was an easy way of doing that. It simply made the transition to Venom a lot easier. It should also be noted that this is also where the strength enhancement comes from. Venom mimicked Spider-man's powers and Eddie Brock was already a body builder (which is why Venom is bulky). As well as making Peter more of a jackass when he had it was also another reason he wanted to ditch it which is further exemplified in Spider-man 3.

    So in essence the strength enhancement, anger issues, bulkiness, and the alien outright being a threat is all things that come from the TV show and then retconned into the comics for one reason or another.


    I see, that makes since thank you for breaking it down for me.

  15. #15
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    But that cuts both ways. Why didn't the symbiote try to communicate with Peter? He didn't even realize it was alive until much later. After all the deception and violation of his body is it really so unreasonable for him to not want to go near it?
    No, it's not unreasonable for Peter to avoid contact with the symbiote altogether. I don't fault Peter for his actions. A person can be blameless and you can still make the case that they could have handled things differently. Whether it would have been better or worse for Peter to engage with the symbiote, directly or indirectly, is a tricky question and one that's never been addressed to my knowledge. The closest we've gotten is the revelation that the symbiote was capable of learning the concept of sacrifice.

    These are the kinds of questions that tend to haunt Peter, regardless of whether he can be reasonably faulted or not.

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