The Original Gwen Stacy Appreciation 2020

[JTHM]

Emma Stone's Gwen is MJ with another name anyways, wouldn't say that's a good thing as a representation of her.

Spectacular Gwen, well, she looks more like Debra, though personality wise she's not like any other version of Gwen (Nor that much like Debra, then again, Spectacular Debra herself was something else in her brief appearance), which is a common trend since Gwen changes a lot per adaptation lol.

I wasn't necessarily trying to say it was good representation for Gwen, mostly that it was the kind of image new generations would have of her -as opposed to what the hardcore comics fans have of her. To be honest, Gwen Stacy is one of those characters that I feel are in such a creative limbo. Everyone has a different image of what she should be like, which isn't necessarily a great thing. Is there even any particular thematic cohesion or character trait between most of her versions of adaptations? I would say no, not even in her appearances in 616. But that's just me.

[Lukmendes]

I wasn't necessarily trying to say it was good representation for Gwen, mostly that it was the kind of image new generations would have of her -as opposed to what the hardcore comics fans have of her. To be honest, Gwen Stacy is one of those characters that I feel are in such a creative limbo. Everyone has a different image of what she should be like, which isn't necessarily a great thing. Is there even any particular thematic cohesion or character trait between most of her versions of adaptations? I would say no, not even in her appearances in 616. But that's just me.

The most consistent trait is her having a crush on Peter in some way, even that isn't always there.

She's a problem character because, like you said, even in 616 she wasn't consistent, went from a tsundere who bullied Peter a lot, but also was willing to consider his personal life, to a tamed version of MJ when it comes to partying, to a "Character" whose entire personality was "I like Peter very much" and then "I like Peter very much and hate Spider-Man".

Stan Lee and Romita screwed up very badly when making her personality, and the whole relationship with Peter was just a bland romance where Peter and Gwen just said they loved each other very much. At least under Ditko there was something going on for her, even if she was basically a weird mix of Liz before and after her character development, later she became just a love interest without an actual personality, but if there's a basis to be used in 616, Ditko would be the best bet, since that was the one time she had something.

Honestly she's not a character who I really care about her returning, she was easily one of the most poorly written love interests, and it's hilarious to see the irony of people hating on Carlie when Carlie shared a lot of the same issues with Gwen, I like to call Carlie "Gwen 2.0".

[TheCape]

Apparently, Carlie and Gwen were also childhood friends at some point lol.

[Lukmendes]

Apparently, Carlie and Gwen were also childhood friends at some point lol.

Well, Superior#31 has Carlie talking about Gwen like they haven't met, if this is something that was supposed to be part of Carlie's background, Slott forgot about it:



Love Gwen's smile here, it looks so fake, it's kinda funny, I like to think this is Gwen reacting to what MJ is saying and thinking "I wasn't anything like this" lol.

[TheCape]

Well, Superior#31 has Carlie talking about Gwen like they haven't met, if this is something that was supposed to be part of Carlie's background, Slott forgot about it:



Love Gwen's smile here, it looks so fake, it's kinda funny, I like to think this is Gwen reacting to what MJ is saying and thinking "I wasn't anything like this" lol.

Now that i remember a bit more, i think that it was more that they knew eacth other as kids and they got along one time. So technically Slott didn't screw up there. If only i could remember what the comics was, i'm pretty sure that it was an anthology book.

Also obligatory f@#% Superior #31, seriously f@#$ it.

[Lukmendes]

Now that i remember a bit more, i think that it was more that they knew eacth other as kids and they got along one time. So technically Slott didn't screw up there. If only i could remember what the comics was, i'm pretty sure that it was an anthology book.

Checked it out here, it's "The many loves of the Amazing Spider-Man", dunno if another comic shows it, but at least there's this one:



The way it's worded here, while it's hard to say if they were close friends, it does seem they met at least once before, and their interactions with each other during the story at least put them in friendly enough terms:





So I'd say it's a screw up, Carlie says "That poor girl... The one who got thrown off the bridge", which really implies she didn't even remember Gwen enough to connect the dots, even though their fathers knew each other, and on the list of love interests, we have a quote about adult Carlie talking about Gwen, so Carlie still remembered her:

https://i.imgur.com/aPAHNaP.png

If it was just this quote, I would understand forgetting this detail, but there's a mini story that has Gwen and Carlie meeting, and talking like they interacted before, so yeah lol.

Also obligatory f@#% Superior #31, seriously f@#$ it.

I honestly see Superior as a mediocre story as a whole, so I don't hold it much against it to be fair lol.

[Frontier]

Apparently, Carlie and Gwen were also childhood friends at some point lol.

In a story that was pretty much about how awesome Carlie was as a kid, if I remember right.

Checked it out here, it's "The many loves of the Amazing Spider-Man", dunno if another comic shows it, but at least there's this one:



The way it's worded here, while it's hard to say if they were close friends, it does seem they met at least once before, and their interactions with each other during the story at least put them in friendly enough terms:





So I'd say it's a screw up, Carlie says "That poor girl... The one who got thrown off the bridge", which really implies she didn't even remember Gwen enough to connect the dots, even though their fathers knew each other, and on the list of love interests, we have a quote about adult Carlie talking about Gwen, so Carlie still remembered her:

https://i.imgur.com/aPAHNaP.png

If it was just this quote, I would understand forgetting this detail, but there's a mini story that has Gwen and Carlie meeting, and talking like they interacted before, so yeah lol.



I honestly see Superior as a mediocre story as a whole, so I don't hold it much against it to be fair lol.

A New York police station really doesn't seem like an appropriate place for a "take your daughter to work day." Unless Carlie seeing a hooker and a thug in cuffs could be seen as "character building."

Oh hey, Watanabe's first appearance?

I guess Gwen has mom issues we don't really see at the forefront much. It was a little more present in USM, but still understated.

[PCN24454]

In a story that was pretty much about how awesome Carlie was as a kid, if I remember right.

A person can always have a retconned in backstory. No need to hold it against her.

[Lukmendes]

In a story that was pretty much about how awesome Carlie was as a kid, if I remember right.

That's pretty much it, yes.

It's honestly kinda annoying because, the stories are supposed to be about Spidey's "big" love interests, dumb enough to have Carlie there when at that time I'm not even sure she was dating Peter, much less long enough to deserve to be there, but not only there's this obvious wanking, she basically steals Gwen's story, because Gwen doesn't have her own story there, while MJ and Felicia do, she only shares is with Carlie, and all Gwen does is talk with Carlie a bit, cry when the death shit is shown, and somewhat help Carlie deduce what's going on, which, I guess it's good enough, but sucks she doesn't have her own story.

A New York police station really doesn't seem like an appropriate place for a "take your daughter to work day." Unless Carlie seeing a hooker and a thug in cuffs could be seen as "character building."

Well, since her father says "I don't want you home alone right now", that pretty much says he's worried about something, though I dunno what, since the criminal who's killing young women that Carlie helps solve was commited last time four years before, and, both her and Gwen are only supposed to stay in George's office, so they wouldn't see much,

Although since her father also says "pretend like you are a little girl who doesn't know anything about how terrible the world is", that means either she did see stuff you mentioned, or other shit that has her father letting her see way too much of his job, since she also talked about snooping her father's desk, and considering that Gwen isn't used to those things, yeah, Carlie's father is pretty lousy lol.

Oh hey, Watanabe's first appearance?

Wiki says she debutted in ASM#600, and this was published around ASM#630, unless this is the first time she's named? Very late if so lol.

I guess Gwen has mom issues we don't really see at the forefront much.

I'm not sure this was mentioned before, under Romita I only remember her talking about her father.

It was a little more present in USM, but still understated.

She was abandoned by her mother which is how she ended up living with Peter and aunt May, and after coming back as Carnage she asked some agents to tell her mother to go fuck herself, wouldn't call that "understated" lol.

[TheCape]

Checked it out here, it's "The many loves of the Amazing Spider-Man", dunno if another comic shows it, but at least there's this one:



The way it's worded here, while it's hard to say if they were close friends, it does seem they met at least once before, and their interactions with each other during the story at least put them in friendly enough terms:





So I'd say it's a screw up, Carlie says "That poor girl... The one who got thrown off the bridge", which really implies she didn't even remember Gwen enough to connect the dots, even though their fathers knew each other, and on the list of love interests, we have a quote about adult Carlie talking about Gwen, so Carlie still remembered her:

https://i.imgur.com/aPAHNaP.png

If it was just this quote, I would understand forgetting this detail, but there's a mini story that has Gwen and Carlie meeting, and talking like they interacted before, so yeah lol.



I honestly see Superior as a mediocre story as a whole, so I don't hold it much against it to be fair lol.

That's the one, so yeah, seems that Slott screwed up.

Also i dislike Superior in his entirety but 9 and 31 in particular rub me the wrong way.

[Ozymandias]

Is there even any particular thematic cohesion or character trait between most of her versions of adaptations?

It's not easy to give anything but a negative answer to that question. But it's not exclusive to one character. Ditko and Romita were very different, and most of the characters were portrayed equally differently. Many of them had a core which remained, but it's not clear what Ditko intended with Gwen, so when Lee pushed her later, they gradually changed her so her role would be that of the girlfriend.

What trait remains? I'd say science. She showed an interest in science that only Peter equaled, among their classmates. Her social status. Her looks. Ditko wasn't very good at depicting beautiful girls, but he did some nice panels with her. She was attracted to Peter from the beginning, this didn't change. She also had a moral compass which sometimes went against her own interests.

[Frontier]

That's pretty much it, yes.

It's honestly kinda annoying because, the stories are supposed to be about Spidey's "big" love interests, dumb enough to have Carlie there when at that time I'm not even sure she was dating Peter, much less long enough to deserve to be there, but not only there's this obvious wanking, she basically steals Gwen's story, because Gwen doesn't have her own story there, while MJ and Felicia do, she only shares is with Carlie, and all Gwen does is talk with Carlie a bit, cry when the death shit is shown, and somewhat help Carlie deduce what's going on, which, I guess it's good enough, but sucks she doesn't have her own story.

Well, Carlie was being pushed as the main Brand New Day love interest, so that's probably why the story became mainly about her (and hit with the subtlety of a sledgehammer).

Well, since her father says "I don't want you home alone right now", that pretty much says he's worried about something, though I dunno what, since the criminal who's killing young women that Carlie helps solve was commited last time four years before, and, both her and Gwen are only supposed to stay in George's office, so they wouldn't see much,

Although since her father also says "pretend like you are a little girl who doesn't know anything about how terrible the world is", that means either she did see stuff you mentioned, or other shit that has her father letting her see way too much of his job, since she also talked about snooping her father's desk, and considering that Gwen isn't used to those things, yeah, Carlie's father is pretty lousy lol.

He was corrupt and faked his own death, so it definitely tracks.

I'm not sure this was mentioned before, under Romita I only remember her talking about her father.

I guess it's interesting to think how her death and a lack of a mother figure impacted Gwen's emotional state.

She was abandoned by her mother which is how she ended up living with Peter and aunt May, and after coming back as Carnage she asked some agents to tell her mother to go fuck herself, wouldn't call that "understated" lol.

I meant understated in that it wasn't always at the forefront, but it was definitely a big deal when it came up.

[PCN24454]

Wasn’t that Mysterio pretending that Carlie’s father came back to life?

[Spider-Tiger]

I guess it's interesting to think how her death and a lack of a mother figure impacted Gwen's emotional state.

Was Gwen's mother ever mentioned in the Romita years? I would speculate that the absence of her mother during childhood/adolescence simply caused her to form a very strong attachment to her father, but that she remained largely "healthy" emotionally as her father was able to provide a stable upbringing unlike Mary Jane or Harry. I imagine that Captain Stacy's death had a more deleterious effect on Gwen's emotional/mental state. (That is if we try to make sense of her character, which has honestly been very inconsistent)

[Frontier]

Wasn’t that Mysterio pretending that Carlie’s father came back to life?

No, that was actually him. It's why it was a major moment for Carlie that she arrested him instead of letting him go.

Was Gwen's mother ever mentioned in the Romita years? I would speculate that the absence of her mother during childhood/adolescence simply caused her to form a very strong attachment to her father, but that she remained largely "healthy" emotionally as her father was able to provide a stable upbringing unlike Mary Jane or Harry. I imagine that Captain Stacy's death had a more deleterious effect on Gwen's emotional/mental state. (That is if we try to make sense of her character, which has honestly been very inconsistent)

I think her severe mood swinging might have been in part born from a loss of a mother figure, but that's just my speculation.