Excalibur #5: SPOILERS

[JB]

Celestrial tech and seeds are definitely involved but I do like the idea that there is a magic element to the Housemen and when you think about it Apocalyse and the four horsemen could be used to create an X with Apocolypse in the center between the four Horsemen.

I like how you think.

[anyajenkins]

And I'm guessing that Betsy could have a problem with that the most...unless they're his true original horsemen from like centuries ago...

I think it is his really original horseman from thousands of years ago.

[pkingdom]

I just remember an arc where Apocalypse turned Colossus into one of his Horseman kind of quickly and it was essentially mind control. They had to get Apocalypse to break it. If Apocalypse can just snap his fingers or shove some kind of seed or magic thing into you to make you his servent, I think more characters should be concerned about that

[Thievery]

I don’t think people saying they enjoy the title are necessarily in the minority. The CBR is a small sample size for those reading the book. Sometimes your opinion can go hand in hand with the flow here and sometimes not. For X-men I feel as if I’m in the minority because that book is so successful and receiving high ratings on other sites and A large portion of people here seem to enjoy, yet I’m absolutely hating it. For Excalibur it’s the opposite for me. Personally at the start the book was average and as time has gone on every issue has been progressively better to the point where I’m enjoying the series yes. It definitely has problems though.

-Tini is struggling with Gambit no doubt.
- The Theme of magic and so on can be a bit confusing
- Way too much going on at times so the book can feel a bit disjointed.

Again enjoying the book. It’s not on the level of Xforce or Marauders but it’s definitely better then the rest imo. Sadly though, In the long run I’m not sure Tini is the writer to really tap into the potential of this title

If you are referring to my post about being in the minority because I enjoy Excalibur than I guess that I should have been more clear. I meant that it appears that I am in the minority when it comes to the CBR forum. I know for a fact that CBR doesn't represent the views of the wider fanbase of readers. Often times when I talk to readers who don't post on forums I find that the opinions of CBR forum members represent the minority opinion. We are just a small slice of the readership.

Honestly, I think that most readers who don't post here would be turned of by a lot of the discussion that takes place here. The constant complaining about comics, writers, artists and favorite characters can be hard to read.
And yes, I know that I have done my fair share of complaining on this website.

[crimsontt]

I felt reading this issue like i did reading the first one. IT was just too many things thrown at the wall and not enough structure.

Pure crap.

And I loved the previous issue. i thought tini had finally taking of. It feels like it s being written by a fan girl.

How I miss bunn, remender, gillen’s takes on betsy.

[crimsontt]

But CLAREMONT would be perfect for this title

[Sutekh]

If she is, I wonder if what just happened would explain their skin colour? Assuming that it's actually Maxime and Manon she's expecting (remember, the teenage versions of them are actually from the future).

Oh goodness. I had not considered that. Evil little French brats who have a touch of Poccy's pallor...

"Make more mutants!" "But did it have to be in such a convoluted and manipulative way?" "Yes!"

Then again, Sinister also has a melanin-deficient-complexion, and is bored, and creating 'something new' from his creepy bukkake collection of 'genetic material.'

[Thievery]

Thanks for a good post. I haven't counted who is in majority or minority so far. With this Hickman hype bubble we still live in the sales will be inflated and I would be suprised to see any comic doing bad numbers. So in that sense one could argue that Excalibur sells well and therefore is well liked. Even if it's to early to use sale numbers yet.

On the Gambit subject i think a lot of Tini's ideas work better on paper then on... well drawn and inked paper that we call a comic page. It's in the execution. Lets say that he got in some punches/explosions on -A- before being pumeled it would make it more rewarding and even add a bit of excitment. Now it's more about making statements, statements not in Gambits favor. He is a punchingbag, a rather inept thief in his thieving adventure, not charming, not clever and you get the story. Very little that he has done he has done it as Gambit. Now if that is a conscious choice by the writer then what is the payoff? He was out cold for any payoff scene with -A-. We can all relate to him being worried about Rogue but let him be so in character. For instance if he is worried, stressed and feeling useless then let him blow of steam against the druids. The random enemy mobs. I want to see things explode. Show us his frustration i all it's pink explosion glory. Instead we get a scene in issue 4 where he hits his head several times against the edges of the chasm. Reminiscent of Homer in Simpsons or the old Looney Toons cartoons.

Sorry for my late response to your post. I wanted to re-read all of Excalibur at once to see if I was missing something.

I still think that Gambit is doing okay in this series. His worry over Rogue's situation and the fact the other characters in the book are constantly acting like insensitive jerks about it make sense to me as a reason for Gambit to lose his cool and make some unwise moves like attacking Apocalypse even though he should have no realistic shot in hell of winning that fight.

I think that it is a plus in Gambit's characterization that Psylocke and Jubilee are acting like hypocrites in the comic. They don't show much empathy for Gambit's concern for Rouge, yet they themselves act all frightened and concerned when it's their loved one in danger. Jubilee is constantly worried about Shogo, as she should be. Betsy actually nearly wreaks a mission just to save Brian, yet when it comes to Gambit's concern for Rouge, she treats him as if he is somehow being overly selfish.

At one point Gambit calls them out on this. He tells Jubes and Betsy that " And I know for a fact one'a you wouldn't leave your beau wit' him." in regards to the fact that they have no problem leaving Rouge with Apocalypse. Jubes and Betsy don't say anything to contradict Gambit's charge in that panel. They just remain silent, and in my opinion they look a little ashamed about it. In the very next panel Captain Britain still doesn't say that what Gambit had just told them wasn't true, that she wouldn't leave anyone close to her with Apocalypse. She just says that they need Gambit's help to save Otherworld or London or something like that.

As far as Gambit's special thieving mission goes, it was Rictor who screwed that one up. He was the one who was supposed to lead Gambit to the right stones using his powers, and Ric blew it. Apocalypse flat out tells Ric that he screwed up. Ric also screwed the battle up by stupidly knocking Gambit into the hole with a poor use of his powers.
There's also the fact that Apocalypse kept Gambit and Rictor in the dark about what they were doing. Gambit didn't exactly have the ability to prepare some master strategy to steal the stones seeing as he was basically flying blind, and had an incompetent partner with him. I know that you could argue that Gambit could have been mor clever in solving the situation, but it's not like Ric was some great help. He kept getting in the way of any thing that Remy could have done.

As far as Gambit hitting his head constantly as he fell down the hole in a Homer Simpson kind of way, I understand that Gambit should be more competent than that. But, I think that it works as just another example of Gambit paying the price for another characters stupidity, seeing as it was Ric's screwup that put him in that position. Still, your right, it probably could have been portrayed a little better, even though it was a comedy scene.

That's just how I read the story. Just my opinion. I could be completely wrong, and you could be right.

[Malachi]

Sorry for my late response to your post. I wanted to re-read all of Excalibur at once to see if I was missing something.

I still think that Gambit is doing okay in this series. His worry over Rogue's situation and the fact the other characters in the book are constantly acting like insensitive jerks about it make sense to me as a reason for Gambit to lose his cool and make some unwise moves like attacking Apocalypse even though he should have no realistic shot in hell of winning that fight.

I think that it is a plus in Gambit's characterization that Psylocke and Jubilee are acting like hypocrites in the comic. They don't show much empathy for Gambit's concern for Rouge, yet they themselves act all frightened and concerned when it's their loved one in danger. Jubilee is constantly worried about Shogo, as she should be. Betsy actually nearly wreaks a mission just to save Brian, yet when it comes to Gambit's concern for Rouge, she treats him as if he is somehow being overly selfish.

At one point Gambit calls them out on this. He tells Jubes and Betsy that " And I know for a fact one'a you wouldn't leave your beau wit' him." in regards to the fact that they have no problem leaving Rouge with Apocalypse. Jubes and Betsy don't say anything to contradict Gambit's charge in that panel. They just remain silent, and in my opinion they look a little ashamed about it. In the very next panel Captain Britain still doesn't say that what Gambit had just told them wasn't true, that she wouldn't leave anyone close to her with Apocalypse. She just says that they need Gambit's help to save Otherworld or London or something like that.

As far as Gambit's special thieving mission goes, it was Rictor who screwed that one up. He was the one who was supposed to lead Gambit to the right stones using his powers, and Ric blew it. Apocalypse flat out tells Ric that he screwed up. Ric also screwed the battle up by stupidly knocking Gambit into the hole with a poor use of his powers.
There's also the fact that Apocalypse kept Gambit and Rictor in the dark about what they were doing. Gambit didn't exactly have the ability to prepare some master strategy to steal the stones seeing as he was basically flying blind, and had an incompetent partner with him. I know that you could argue that Gambit could have been mor clever in solving the situation, but it's not like Ric was some great help. He kept getting in the way of any thing that Remy could have done.

As far as Gambit hitting his head constantly as he fell down the hole in a Homer Simpson kind of way, I understand that Gambit should be more competent than that. But, I think that it works as just another example of Gambit paying the price for another characters stupidity, seeing as it was Ric's screwup that put him in that position. Still, your right, it probably could have been portrayed a little better, even though it was a comedy scene.

That's just how I read the story. Just my opinion. I could be completely wrong, and you could be right.

Lets say that you are right. Then what is the payoff? What is the reason for everyone to act stupid? With Rictor one could surmise that he's being set up for a larger story where he explores his powers. It seems to be a given at this time. So that's why he blames it on Gambit(the disjointed versions of issue 4 ending and issue 5 opening isn't doing the comic any favors. It portrays Rictor as arrogant and insecure and Gambit as clumsy).

Even if Tini likes her heroes flawed they also need wins. 5 issues is an eternity in todays comic landscape. So if she would have some larger vindication story planned it's very risky to assume the fans are still onboard when that rolls in. If you want to break the characters down and then build them up as a new writer you first have to show you can write the character in the first place. Then you can start with your plan, when you have some goodwill.

Even if I focus a lot on Gambit he's not the only problem characterwise. Jubilee is either rude or shooting flashy nonsense at the enemies. Her role beyond being Shogo's mother is nonexistent. I like Jubilee normally. Majorie Liu's X-23 arc with Laura, Gambit, Jubilee and Logan in Paris is great. Marvellous character work. If Tini hasn't read it she should.

But alas if all these examples of Gambit paying for other characters faults would be needed it could still be written as Gambit. Where is the wit? The jabs? The elegance? The agility? Even frustrated he should be Gambit.

[JB]

[Devaishwarya]

LOL. I was like:
Girl, you gone and defended your man's honour! I see you, Missy!

LO-fekkin-VED IT!!!

[PeachFlavoredXanax]

This is the content I signed up for <3

[MentalManipulator]

Apparently, Excalibur and the new X-Factor book are going to have an arc or something together. That would be very exciting if true.... two of my favorite casts!

[JB]

Apparently, Excalibur and the new X-Factor book are going to have an arc or something together. That would be very exciting if true.... two of my favorite casts!

Very exciting indeed!

Leah:
“Kyle is a human living in a world built for and by mutants — comparatively an outsider [...],” Williams said. “We’ll see a lot of their married life and will be exploring all the important nuance to their living situation in Krakoa. Tini Howard and I might also be collaborating on a really exciting story involving human existence in Krakoa, so be on the lookout for clues about that in one of our books!”

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Very exciting indeed!

Leah:
“Kyle is a human living in a world built for and by mutants — comparatively an outsider [...],” Williams said. “We’ll see a lot of their married life and will be exploring all the important nuance to their living situation in Krakoa. Tini Howard and I might also be collaborating on a really exciting story involving human existence in Krakoa, so be on the lookout for clues about that in one of our books!”

Wait, wait, wait--is that true??

Now, as a rule, I don't take what's said in interviews literally. "Living in a world built for and by mutants" could easily translate to "He hangs out on the beach and does their taxes", so excuse my cynical approach...

But if they are being literal then hell yes, I'll buy that!