Excalibur #5: SPOILERS

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

I want a flashback scene to the worlds first mojito and one person wearing a red diamond on his/hers forehead.

Ah! One of two! The fun is figuring out which as they go!

[JB]

I guess that I'm in the minority here, because I enjoy this series. I'm not having the same problems that others seem to be in following what's going on, and I can barely make out what is being said on the data pages. Really, if anything I've found the comic to be a little obvious and full of tropes. The only thing that really caught me by surprise was the Rachel thing. I'd even say that characters aren't even being written all that out of character. We're just getting simplified takes on some of them.

I know that Gambit has been grating at times, but I do think that some of it is justified. Even with the mutants resurrection abilities, I think you would probably be concerned about what is happening to your spouse. And, Gambit is being portrayed as the only one smart enough not to trust Apocalypse the same way that many of the others are. The old story of the character who is being smart is the one who is getting dumped on by the other characters. Or, at least that's the way that things look to me now.
As far as Gambit getting beaten up, well I guess that I don't mind it because I kind of enjoy watching the heroes getting beat around during their fight scenes. So that's just not going to bother me as much as others. That's just a preference on my part, so I understand not everyone else is going to like it as much.

Maybe I'm not having the same problems that everyone else is because I haven't read a lot of Otherworld stories, and I cant tell that things are being written incorrectly.

I'm with you on this. I'm enjoying it a lot and so are many others according to sales. Let's see how it unfolds.

[Malachi]

I guess that I'm in the minority here, because I enjoy this series. I'm not having the same problems that others seem to be in following what's going on, and I can barely make out what is being said on the data pages. Really, if anything I've found the comic to be a little obvious and full of tropes. The only thing that really caught me by surprise was the Rachel thing. I'd even say that characters aren't even being written all that out of character. We're just getting simplified takes on some of them.

I know that Gambit has been grating at times, but I do think that some of it is justified. Even with the mutants resurrection abilities, I think you would probably be concerned about what is happening to your spouse. And, Gambit is being portrayed as the only one smart enough not to trust Apocalypse the same way that many of the others are. The old story of the character who is being smart is the one who is getting dumped on by the other characters. Or, at least that's the way that things look to me now.
As far as Gambit getting beaten up, well I guess that I don't mind it because I kind of enjoy watching the heroes getting beat around during their fight scenes. So that's just not going to bother me as much as others. That's just a preference on my part, so I understand not everyone else is going to like it as much.

Maybe I'm not having the same problems that everyone else is because I haven't read a lot of Otherworld stories, and I cant tell that things are being written incorrectly.

Thanks for a good post. I haven't counted who is in majority or minority so far. With this Hickman hype bubble we still live in the sales will be inflated and I would be suprised to see any comic doing bad numbers. So in that sense one could argue that Excalibur sells well and therefore is well liked. Even if it's to early to use sale numbers yet.

On the Gambit subject i think a lot of Tini's ideas work better on paper then on... well drawn and inked paper that we call a comic page. It's in the execution. Lets say that he got in some punches/explosions on -A- before being pumeled it would make it more rewarding and even add a bit of excitment. Now it's more about making statements, statements not in Gambits favor. He is a punchingbag, a rather inept thief in his thieving adventure, not charming, not clever and you get the story. Very little that he has done he has done it as Gambit. Now if that is a conscious choice by the writer then what is the payoff? He was out cold for any payoff scene with -A-. We can all relate to him being worried about Rogue but let him be so in character. For instance if he is worried, stressed and feeling useless then let him blow of steam against the druids. The random enemy mobs. I want to see things explode. Show us his frustration i all it's pink explosion glory. Instead we get a scene in issue 4 where he hits his head several times against the edges of the chasm. Reminiscent of Homer in Simpsons or the old Looney Toons cartoons.

[donpricetag]

Why are we ignoring Apocalypse's horribly mundane dialogue?! This is not how Apocalypse speaks! Not even in other books of this era he doesn't talk like that.

Apocalypse isn't petty. He doesn't do one-liners, and comebacks. C'mon, just one 4 syllable, just one. Please! This is as bad as snarky jokey Mister Sinister. Hate that MCU-ey Sinister too.

You guys are upset Gambit lost... It shouldn't have even happened. Gambit shouldn't dumb enough to even try, and Apocalypse wouldn't bother because the man isn't a threat to him. The interaction between them should be much more cerebral and nuisance.

Apocalypse physically and mentally altered Gambit. Made him do things he normally wouldn't. Made Gambit his son, in a way. Apocalypse was in Gambits head. Any time Gambit raises his voice Apocalypse should taunt him even subtly in a way that makes him shiver. This petty squabbling isn't like either character. This... This is no bueno. It's whack, boring, unimaginative and out of character for both men.

[sungila]

Unbeknownst to the mister-know-it-all-in-me, somebody (Tini Howard) is telling a carefully beautifully magically interesting long(but not long winded) form story! And this issue put me in the stream of this brilliantly very-Excalibur(y) comic without my-mister-know-it-all (see him shouting threats from the bank of can't hear you)...I love it. In a new familiar way.

Rocky start is actually how you sometimes have to get into the good part...and um, Rictor breaks apart the Rocky start...

So the next book...is totally the next book now! And yay!

I don't understand how Tini Howard did this...at all...and that's magic.

If I go back and take it all apart...what a waste of having magical feelings...I mean...if I get all blah blah about predatory creepster Wisdom framing that whole thing with Betsy like he's trapping her...I miss that she isn't trapped...and Wisdom is Wisdom...and that's that...but there's so much more!

Lots of turn-about and arounds and undergrounds and otherworld...it's good.

This is one of those time I fall in love with Gambit too, and that's never ever anything I expect to do (I like like him mostly)...but it's also...when I like him more than just like...and it's always good, cause I like like-liking him when I do.

[CGAR]

That's an interesting take that I don't disagree with.

When Apocalypse said "Are you happy now" I rolled my eyes.

I'm like would he really say that.



I'm still trying to figure what Hickman see's in TH story telling and dialogue.

Sales are obviously doing good.

But just no for me.

Here's hoping this setting up arc really makes the next arc more refreshing and easy to read.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Apocalypse physically and mentally altered Gambit. Made him do things he normally wouldn't. Made Gambit his son, in a way. Apocalypse was in Gambits head. Any time Gambit raises his voice Apocalypse should taunt him even subtly in a way that makes him shiver.

Oh ****, mate, I think you might actually be on to something there? There was a line he said "Now get outta my head." Jubilee said exactly the same before, in issue #2, having that nightmare that terrified her enough to go and get Shogo...

And we know, now, that Apocalypse has been planning this out and manipulating things as he goes...

He did it on purpose...

[Del torro]

Why are we ignoring Apocalypse's horribly mundane dialogue?! This is not how Apocalypse speaks! Not even in other books of this era he doesn't talk like that.

Apocalypse isn't petty. He doesn't do one-liners, and comebacks. C'mon, just one 4 syllable, just one. Please! This is as bad as snarky jokey Mister Sinister. Hate that MCU-ey Sinister too.

You guys are upset Gambit lost... It shouldn't have even happened. Gambit shouldn't dumb enough to even try, and Apocalypse wouldn't bother because the man isn't a threat to him. The interaction between them should be much more cerebral and nuisance.

Apocalypse physically and mentally altered Gambit. Made him do things he normally wouldn't. Made Gambit his son, in a way. Apocalypse was in Gambits head. Any time Gambit raises his voice Apocalypse should taunt him even subtly in a way that makes him shiver. This petty squabbling isn't like either character. This... This is no bueno. It's whack, boring, unimaginative and out of character for both men.

Yeah, the execution could have been so mich better.

[RD155]

I don’t think people saying they enjoy the title are necessarily in the minority. The CBR is a small sample size for those reading the book. Sometimes your opinion can go hand in hand with the flow here and sometimes not. For X-men I feel as if I’m in the minority because that book is so successful and receiving high ratings on other sites and A large portion of people here seem to enjoy, yet I’m absolutely hating it. For Excalibur it’s the opposite for me. Personally at the start the book was average and as time has gone on every issue has been progressively better to the point where I’m enjoying the series yes. It definitely has problems though.

-Tini is struggling with Gambit no doubt.
- The Theme of magic and so on can be a bit confusing
- Way too much going on at times so the book can feel a bit disjointed.

Again enjoying the book. It’s not on the level of Xforce or Marauders but it’s definitely better then the rest imo. Sadly though, In the long run I’m not sure Tini is the writer to really tap into the potential of this title

[pkingdom]

Do we have the sales data from the last couple issues of everything already?

I'm not familiar with how Apocalypse actually makes his horsemen. Is it something he can do quickly, or is there a long process to it? Should they be worried that he could just do that to one or two of them at any time?

[CRaymond]

Do we have the sales data from the last couple issues of everything already?

I'm not familiar with how Apocalypse actually makes his horsemen. Is it something he can do quickly, or is there a long process to it? Should they be worried that he could just do that to one or two of them at any time?

I always assumed it was Celestial tech, as I'm old and understood the semi-metallic transformations applied to War, Famine, Pestilence, Death, and Caliban. Years passed, and the overwhelming theme for Apocalypse is his constant transformation of 4 randoms into 4 horsemen. NOW, with Apocalypse revealing himself to be something of a wizard, his Horsemen make sense to me as a magical spell that overtakes a mutant hero.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

I don’t think people saying they enjoy the title are necessarily in the minority. The CBR is a small sample size for those reading the book. Sometimes your opinion can go hand in hand with the flow here and sometimes not. For X-men I feel as if I’m in the minority because that book is so successful and receiving high ratings on other sites and A large portion of people here seem to enjoy, yet I’m absolutely hating it. For Excalibur it’s the opposite for me. Personally at the start the book was average and as time has gone on every issue has been progressively better to the point where I’m enjoying the series yes. It definitely has problems though.

-Tini is struggling with Gambit no doubt.
- The Theme of magic and so on can be a bit confusing
- Way too much going on at times so the book can feel a bit disjointed.

Again enjoying the book. It’s not on the level of Xforce or Marauders but it’s definitely better then the rest imo. Sadly though, In the long run I’m not sure Tini is the writer to really tap into the potential of this title

I'm with you on all of this. I too am despising the X-Men title. For all its' flaws, Excalibur is the one that's sort of most selling me on the whole concept Hickman's set up, but even then it's because it's affording it even the tiniest shred of nuance...but then, as you said, it can always be pushed just that bit further when it comes to the characters.

(And X-force is genuine gold, not gonna lie.)

[loke13]

Do we have the sales data from the last couple issues of everything already?

I'm not familiar with how Apocalypse actually makes his horsemen. Is it something he can do quickly, or is there a long process to it? Should they be worried that he could just do that to one or two of them at any time?

Right now it seems like apocalypse is it really more concerned with getting his original Horsemen back not making more cheap knock offs lol

[LoganAlpha30X33]

And I'm guessing that Betsy could have a problem with that the most...unless they're his true original horsemen from like centuries ago...

[Tasuxeda]

I always assumed it was Celestial tech, as I'm old and understood the semi-metallic transformations applied to War, Famine, Pestilence, Death, and Caliban. Years passed, and the overwhelming theme for Apocalypse is his constant transformation of 4 randoms into 4 horsemen. NOW, with Apocalypse revealing himself to be something of a wizard, his Horsemen make sense to me as a magical spell that overtakes a mutant hero.

Celestrial tech and seeds are definitely involved but I do like the idea that there is a magic element to the Housemen and when you think about it Apocalyse and the four horsemen could be used to create an X with Apocolypse in the center between the four Horsemen.