What if...?

[jwatson]

What If...

The escaped posthuman from that lab becomes more of a thing, joined by others?

Will they be "utilized" by the likes of Orchi as a "trump card" versus mutantkind the way Moira foresees?

Or might they get tired of obeying "flatscans" themselves and decide (much like how Sentinels have done...) they are better at running things anyways and try taking over humanity?

Then it's a question of Krakoa needing to save humans from their posthuman rulers perhaps. OR humanity might mostly go along with and accept being governed by their superior "future evolved" selves. After all, they need a way to compete against Krakoa.

We already saw that eventually post humans will betray actual humans.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

I wouldn't call it segregated. They just aren't allowed to live on the main island. Parents aren't allowed to live on boarding school premises. If all the parents and the people want is a safe place i can't imagine they would have a problem living on a habitat that was safe for them and their children but just not on the main island. I can't just go into any country club or live in a 50+ community when i don't meet the age requirement.

But an island isn't a boarding school. It's an island; a communal, public place to be lived in. There's other people there their own ages walking about, interacting, living normal lives in much bigger spaces. Don't forget these refugees are coming from war-torn lands; they may never be able to go home, may never be accepted into another country. Is it fair that the rest of their days are spent in such a limited environment? They may have the necessities and safety, but is it right to deny someone a certain standard of living? Of life?

You can't go into a country club because it's a country club, but nobody has that kind of claim over a public street usually.

[jwatson]

But this is supposedly her last life, isn't it? How can fix it if this is literally her last chance? Sure, there might be an 11th life, but isn't that too big a risk to not know for sure?

That hasn't been confirmed. Destiny told her that, for all we know Destiny is planning on ending her if she doesn't do what Destiny considers the "Right" thing and that is what Moira is really afraid of. But nothing so far has stated there is a limit on the amount of time's Moira can be reincarnated.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

That hasn't been confirmed. Destiny told her that, for all we know Destiny is planning on ending her if she doesn't do what Destiny considers the "Right" thing and that is what Moira is really afraid of. But nothing so far has stated there is a limit on the amount of time's Moira can be reincarnated.

But that's the accepted consensus so far, what we've been told? Moira has no guarantee that she has any extra lives, so why take the risk? Especially since Destiny's dead right now and banned from ever coming back, so what's she really to fear from her?

[jwatson]

But an island isn't a boarding school. It's an island; a communal, public place to be lived in. There's other people there their own ages walking about, interacting, living normal lives in much bigger spaces. Don't forget these refugees are coming from war-torn lands; they may never be able to go home, may never be accepted into another country. Is it fair that the rest of their days are spent in such a limited environment? They may have the necessities and safety, but is it right to deny someone a certain standard of living? Of life?

A private island is a private island. I can't just go to Oprah's island because it's an island. So i don't see it being a problem if mutants make a safe space for them. Remember habitats can be built anywhere including under the sea. So if safety is their primary concern i don't see why they would have an objection. Why would they specifically need to live on the main island if they are being offered exactly what they need, a safe new home. No one is denying them a standard of life, they will have access to everything mutants have just not be able to live full time on the mutant island. It could potentially be unsafe for them there anyway with all of these mutants living free with their powers.

[jwatson]

But that's the accepted consensus so far, what we've been told? Moira has no guarantee that she has any extra lives, so why take the risk? Especially since Destiny's dead right now and banned from ever coming back, so what's she really to fear from her?

It's the accepted speculation by many but not me. It has not been stated under any circumstance Moira only has 11 lives but Destiny did threaten to kill her in the womb if she needed. So there is nothing stating how many reincarnations she has.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

A private island is a private island. I can't just go to Oprah's island because it's an island. So i don't see it being a problem if mutants make a safe space for them. Remember habitats can be built anywhere including under the sea. So if safety is their primary concern i don't see why they would have an objection. Why would they specifically need to live on the main island if they are being offered exactly what they need, a safe new home. No one is denying them a standard of life, they will have access to everything mutants have just not be able to live full time on the mutant island. It could potentially be unsafe for them there anyway with all of these mutants living free with their powers.

But isn't that a bit of a double standard? Mutants can go wherever they please, but refugees who came to them looking for help are essentially 'stuck' in one, limited space. What lives will they live there, what prospects for the future do they hold? If they truly can't return home then they're going to want to settle there, to start families; pretty soon it's not going to be so much a habitat as a separate country, with new individuals to feed and clothe and educate--who may well all be human? And they live in Krakoa too, essentially, do they never, ever get a say in what happens to them or the land they live on? A home is just that, a home, but what else is there if you're there for the long-haul? For a whole life-time, even? Would they be allowed to work, or expected to, even, but never stay on the island past those 'working hours'? That would be segregation, surely?

[jwatson]

But this is supposedly her last life, isn't it? How can fix it if this is literally her last chance? Sure, there might be an 11th life, but isn't that too big a risk to not know for sure?

Again nothing states that. How do we know that her decision to not allow precogs is what has moira kill her in the womb in her 11th life? And that is why she said possibly 11. How do we know Destiny didn't leave a diary for mystique that tells her what to do if Moira doesn't allow her to be brought back and she gets shot with a neutralizer? We don't have enough facts to just blatantly say this is or isn't her last life.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Again nothing states that. How do we know that her decision to not allow precogs is what has moira kill her in the womb in her 11th life? And that is why she said possibly 11. How do we know Destiny didn't leave a diary for mystique that tells her what to do if Moira doesn't allow her to be brought back and she gets shot with a neutralizer? We don't have enough facts to just blatantly say this is or isn't her last life.

Can I ask; where did Destiny state she'd kill Moira in the womb? I thought Destiny just stated she saw a potential 11th life but "That's it." ?

[jwatson]

But isn't that a bit of a double standard? Mutants can go wherever they please, but refugees who came to them looking for help are essentially 'stuck' in one, limited space. What lives will they live there, what prospects for the future do they hold? If they truly can't return home then they're going to want to settle there, to start families; pretty soon it's not going to be so much a habitat as a separate country, with new individuals to feed and clothe and educate--who may well all be human? And they live in Krakoa too, essentially, do they never, ever get a say in what happens to them or the land they live on? A home is just that, a home, but what else is there if you're there for the long-haul? For a whole life-time, even?

I don't see how that is a double standard at all. Again why would it matter where they are as long as it's safe it safety is all they care about. I would think they would be happy to live in a place where their home country can't hurt them. Refugees are usually tracked when entering a country for safety. What else do they want?

As far as rights, most mutants don't make laws on the island it is made by the council, the council was not voted in but rather selected so what rights would they actually be getting denied?

[jwatson]

Can I ask; where did Destiny state she'd kill Moira in the womb? I thought Destiny just stated she saw a potential 11th life but "That's it." ?

In one of the house of x issues i don't have it in front of me but it was the issue destiny had pyro burn her she told her if she ever tried to create a cure again she would kill her in the womb.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

In one of the house of x issues i don't have it in front of me but it was the issue destiny had pyro burn her she told her if she ever tried to create a cure again she would kill her in the womb.

That doesn't imply more than 11 lives. That just reads that, if Moira were to try and mix up another cure in any of her remaining lives then she's dead meat.

[jwatson]

That doesn't imply more than 11 lives. That just reads that, if Moira were to try and mix up another cure in any of her remaining lives then she's dead meat.

It doesn't imply less than 11 either. We don't know what Destiny had in mind when she said that or what choices she would make. For all we know that iis why Moira is afraid to have precogs around. Because she doesn't know what Destiny knows or what she may do. Even dead Destiny is one of the most powerful characters in this new world because she has power over Moira.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

It doesn't imply less than 11 either. We don't know what Destiny had in mind when she said that or what choices she would make. For all we know that iis why Moira is afraid to have precogs around. Because she doesn't know what Destiny knows or what she may do. Even dead Destiny is one of the most powerful characters in this new world because she has power over Moira.

Ok, well, with that in mind: a Precog is born on Krakoa recently, while Moira's still in fear of the still-dead Destiny.

[jwatson]

Ok, well, with that in mind: a Precog is born on Krakoa recently, while Moira's still in fear of the still-dead Destiny.

For me, again not trying to change any minds just answering the what if. I don't think she has a problem with precogs but how would it look especially to mystique if she was like "No destiny" So she may act like she is relenting to "do the right thing" But i think the only precog she is actually afraid of is Destiny. And that in itself may cause her to go to great extremes. If she does anything her cards are played and Mystiques knows Destiny is purposefully being kept from her so they would have to come up with a pretty good reason of getting rid of the child as no one knows about the no precog rule aside from Moira, Magneto, Xavier. So it would definitely be interesting.