X-Force #5 Review: The reunification of one James "Logan" Howlett

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

That's cuz you have a kind soul lol....

But yeah I was enjoying the more reformed Sabretooth in Bunn's Uncanny and then in Pak's Weapon X. He was enjoyable as heck. Reverting him into "MONSTER" is boring IMO. And then we have tons of fans not only justifying but saying it's GREAT when their favorites act just as viciously if not worse. Rolls eyes

Not to mention just frustrating! And my god, the hypocrisy on that last bit: I'm frigging terrified of that and if it bleeds in to real life? Like...why is that cathartic for some? I don't get it? I understand Logan, for example, having to slice through someone but it's never 'for fun' with him--and even then if it is, ya know it's torturous for him!

[AbnormallyNormal]

Not to mention just frustrating! And my god, the hypocrisy on that last bit: I'm frigging terrified of that and if it bleeds in to real life? Like...why is that cathartic for some? I don't get it? I understand Logan, for example, having to slice through someone but it's never 'for fun' with him--and even then if it is, ya know it's torturous for him!

I spoke on this after another XForce issue. Basically I view Wolverine as a gigantic bundle of contradictions. You cannot employ absolutely vicious tactics and then act like your strategic goals or mindset are pacifistic in the end. It just doesn't compute

Yeah it was the issue where he was 1) Lecturing Quire out of nowhere about how humans should be respected blah blah blah. 2) He's violently slashing up enemies and just being ultra hardcore.

It's like... sigh. PICK ONE OF THOSE THINGS TO BE.

Like I got into comics in the early 90s right? "Back in my day" Wolverine was known for being the rebel, loner, antihero and all that. THAT MADE SENSE for him being incredibly violent. But when they decided to make him become an Avenger in the 2000s, and in general tone his personality way down. Then with Schism the stance he took there. It became insanely contradictory.

[Vishop_]

I spoke on this after another XForce issue. Basically I view Wolverine as a gigantic bundle of contradictions. You cannot employ absolutely vicious tactics and then act like your strategic goals or mindset are pacifistic in the end. It just doesn't compute

Yeah it was the issue where he was 1) Lecturing Quire out of nowhere about how humans should be respected blah blah blah. 2) He's violently slashing up enemies and just being ultra hardcore.

It's like... sigh. PICK ONE OF THOSE THINGS TO BE.

Like I got into comics in the early 90s right? "Back in my day" Wolverine was known for being the rebel, loner, antihero and all that. THAT MADE SENSE for him being incredibly violent. But when they decided to make him become an Avenger in the 2000s, and in general tone his personality way down. Then with Schism the stance he took there. It became insanely contradictory.

He was only having a important conversation with Quire, not forcing him around. It's not's Logan's way, right now IMO. I think what he wanted to implicit Quire is that kill the bad people but not those who are innocent. It's lot more ethical than what Magento was saying about humans and mutants being "GOD".

[Celestialbodies]

She keeps getting overshadowed by literally everyone else. Idk anymore if Percy gets EXACTLY what her character is about or not at all.

HaHaha is this a joke? Outside of MAYBE Claremont exactly whose gotten a chance to get her? I mean even under his pen he never had a concrete idea of what/who she was. She went from Tessa, to some form of telepath/cyberpath, then she gain the ability to jumpstart mutations, she was cop-esque under Morrison who might of had the best handle on her imo. Then she appeared in Exiles under Pak and I couldn't tell you a single memorable thing about her in that run! This is the best she's been use in literal years she has an actual role and not simply as a plot device.

I wonder this is why Jean was so brutal to the merc. I remember Jean always being averse to civilian casualties and she might get angry if people end up dying.

I think it's deliberate that the merc was humanized by having him talk about his dog and his memories. One question though. Why would he have to call his neighbor about his dog if he knowingly took a job where he could be captured or killed? He should of had a contingency plan in case he gets incapacitated. Maybe that's why Hank wasn't buying into his request for a phone call.

Idk, Jean gets cred as "saintly" but she done far more to enemies who've attacked or assaulted her friends. I mean she did wipe Frenzy's mind completely and had her forcibly join the X-men.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

I spoke on this after another XForce issue. Basically I view Wolverine as a gigantic bundle of contradictions. You cannot employ absolutely vicious tactics and then act like your strategic goals or mindset are pacifistic in the end. It just doesn't compute

Yeah it was the issue where he was 1) Lecturing Quire out of nowhere about how humans should be respected blah blah blah. 2) He's violently slashing up enemies and just being ultra hardcore.

It's like... sigh. PICK ONE OF THOSE THINGS TO BE.

Like I got into comics in the early 90s right? "Back in my day" Wolverine was known for being the rebel, loner, antihero and all that. THAT MADE SENSE for him being incredibly violent. But when they decided to make him become an Avenger in the 2000s, and in general tone his personality way down. Then with Schism the stance he took there. It became insanely contradictory.

But isn't that just part of his bundle of contradictions? He knows knows to rationalise a situation, but it doesn't make it any easier when he needs to do what he needs to? He needs to defend himself and Quire in that scenario, for example, but that doesn't mean he wants that influence perpetuated as 'ok,' or any other injustice (even as he perceives it) for that matter? I always thought that was part of his trauma; because even in the 90's, he was incredibly compassionate to kids like Jubilee, and Kitty before that. He's never been one-dimensional?

[AbnormallyNormal]

But isn't that just part of his bundle of contradictions? He knows knows to rationalise a situation, but it doesn't make it any easier when he needs to do what he needs to? He needs to defend himself and Quire in that scenario, for example, but that doesn't mean he wants that influence perpetuated as 'ok,' or any other injustice (even as he perceives it) for that matter? I always thought that was part of his trauma; because even in the 90's, he was incredibly compassionate to kids like Jubilee, and Kitty before that. He's never been one-dimensional?

I honestly think Wolverine is a huge "Have your cake and eat it too" situation. There is a visceral thrill to be obtained from his primitivistic violence and barbaric rages he goes through. And then you have no moral accountability from it and don't have to feel guilt or think about anything because "He's a sweetheart overall".

[JB]

I honestly think Wolverine is a huge "Have your cake and eat it too" situation. There is a visceral thrill to be obtained from his primitivistic violence and barbaric rages he goes through. And then you have no moral accountability from it and don't have to feel guilt or think about anything because "He's a sweetheart overall".

I read the Quire scene differently. Logan knows full well that Quire using that kind of rhetoric, along with his ego, will probably put him in jeopardy sooner than later. And it actually happened when he lost his powers and completely freaked out. I saw Logan as being a teacher there, teaching young buck that he isn't invincible.

Then there's Logan's primal side. He was just blown in half - we all KNEW he wasn't going to just let that go. Not to mention having to see Quentin's head by his side.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

I read the Quire scene differently. Logan knows full well that Quire using that kind of rhetoric, along with his ego, will probably put him in jeopardy sooner than later. And it actually happened when he lost his powers and completely freaked out. I saw Logan as being a teacher there, teaching young buck that he isn't invincible.

Then there's Logan's primal side. He was just blown in half - we all KNEW he wasn't going to just let that go. Not to mention having to see Quentin's head by his side.

Agree completely. But let's not forget that Logan is a compassionate character: He doesn't view things as black and white because he's lived far too much not to understand it. He's seen the best and the worst and everything in between; he won't have Quire spouting such hateful things because, hell, isn't that just what those that want them dead do? Isn't that what others have done in the past, as he's seen first-hand?

[franckd]

I spoke on this after another XForce issue. Basically I view Wolverine as a gigantic bundle of contradictions. You cannot employ absolutely vicious tactics and then act like your strategic goals or mindset are pacifistic in the end. It just doesn't compute

Yeah it was the issue where he was 1) Lecturing Quire out of nowhere about how humans should be respected blah blah blah. 2) He's violently slashing up enemies and just being ultra hardcore.

It's like... sigh. PICK ONE OF THOSE THINGS TO BE.

Like I got into comics in the early 90s right? "Back in my day" Wolverine was known for being the rebel, loner, antihero and all that. THAT MADE SENSE for him being incredibly violent. But when they decided to make him become an Avenger in the 2000s, and in general tone his personality way down. Then with Schism the stance he took there. It became insanely contradictory.

There is absolutely no contradiction. Quentin see humans as inferior beings, or just vas a threat, in general. Logan lectured him about this. He also said that human are capable of the best or the worst. As mutants are capable too. So no contradiction here. You can respect humanity as a whole, and go "hardcore" on killers, humans or not.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

There is absolutely no contradiction. Quentin see humans as inferior beings, or just vas a threat, in general. Logan lectured him about this. He also said that human are capable of the best or the worst. As mutants are capable too. So no contradiction here. You can respect humanity as a whole, and go "hardcore" on killers, humans or not.

Yeah, exactly, that's how I saw it too; especially since Logan's lived through..well...just a few era's of people touting the same rhetoric. And gone to war over it. It makes sense he'd want to clamp down on that as quick as possible, but still dish it out to who happens to be attacking at the time.

[Mr. White]

I also don't think the data pages are written with the expectations that readers will choose to skip them. There's too much care and creativity put into them for that. But it is clear that the books are structured in such a way that one could skip them and still understand the story.

I agree.While opinions will always differ, think these two points must be realized.

[Killerbee911]

I have grown to move on the Data page complaints. The complaints are proof that they are working. Literally every time someone says "I want to see more of that" the data page did its job. Every time someone says "the data page seems more interesting that what was in book" it proves what people have said about reading for years. Your imagination will always beat any form of entertainment. It is not a surprise when someone thinks written part is better than drawn part.

[franckd]

Yeah, exactly, that's how I saw it too; especially since Logan's lived through..well...just a few era's of people touting the same rhetoric. And gone to war over it. It makes sense he'd want to clamp down on that as quick as possible, but still dish it out to who happens to be attacking at the time.

And that's how I read it. It's in the book. Logan's reaction completely makes sense. And you don't have to be a Mutant to think like he does...
A lot of people can sincerely prefer peace over war, and respect life and humanity. And some of those same people can also be capable or murder if someone kills their friends and relatives. That's not far fetched.

[Devaishwarya]

Well, sure.

I guess some people could also "engage" with closed doors by trying to run through them rather than opening them or "engage" with their food by throwing it against the wall rather than actually eating it. Some might say those people are doing it wrong - like, really wrong - but, you know, it's their right and everybody makes choices.



I also don't think the data pages are written with the expectations that readers will choose to skip them. There's too much care and creativity put into them for that. But it is clear that the books are structured in such a way that one could skip them and still understand the story.

I LOVE the data-pages.
Because I read and re-read my issues several times I tend to skip them on the first reading just to focus on the actual story. Then, I'll read them with the story as a whole and then I'll re-read them separate from the story just for the joy of having them.

[JB]

I have grown to move on the Data page complaints. The complaints are proof that they are working. Literally every time someone says "I want to see more of that" the data page did its job. Every time someone says "the data page seems more interesting that what was in book" it proves what people have said about reading for years. Your imagination will always beat any form of entertainment. It is not a surprise when someone thinks written part is better than drawn part.

I agree. I think people might actually be disappointed with how some of it would be translated onto the regular pages. It's the intrigue and imagination, as you said, that makes them richer. What I see in my mind when I think of that Black Tom data page is likely different than what you see. It's fun that way.