Legion of Super-Heroes = Hickman's Avengers

[Superlad93]

Don't worry, I'm well aware this isn't some 'hot take' that I'm the first to uncover and bless you all with like some nerdy Prometheus.

I'm vaguely aware that it's kind of an open secret that Jonathan Hickman's Avengers run is a thinly veiled Legion of Super-Heroes run, and that his dream job is writing the Legion. This has made its way into discussions here and there, but I don't recall ever seeing a thread devoted to it, so I figured why not do one?

I'll go down the list and also explain my reasoning.

Cap = Cosmic Boy: Most would assume Superboy right off the bat due to Cap and Superman usually being compared, and Cap, like Superboy, joins the team from the past. But Cap, like Cos classically is, is the heart and soul of the team. Cos is the dude that beat a cosmic, evil wizard with only his words and strength of character. I'd say I'm pretty spot on here.

Hulk = Colossal Boy: It sounds dumb, but Hulk does change in size and is the biggest team member. I'm convined Hickman didn't pick Ant Man because it would be too easy plus he pretty much had to have a base of the movie Avengers at the time.

Falcon = Dawnstar: Another really easy one. It's actually easier than the Hulk or Cap because Sam actually has the power to see through the eyes of birds and conceivably track like Dawnstar does.

Smasher = Ultra Boy: While Thor may be a bit closer in terms of personality, Smasher's ability to "download" super powers as she needs them was literally created as a parody of Ultra Boy in the X-Men books.

Cannonball = Bouncing Boy: Pretty straight forward, I'd say. They're powers are the fact that their bodies are nearly indestructible, and they use themselves as projectiles. Also, if I'm not mistaken, they're both the first on their teams to really solidify their relationships to their significant others, right? Cannonball has a baby with Smasher during Hickman's run, and BB gets married.

Wolverine = Timber Wolf: This one's really tough.....

Thor = Lightning Lad: I really went back and forth on this one, but ultimately it fits because of the general good nature, brashness, and, well, lightning powers. As a bonus, Thor also gets his arm cut off and replaced with a metal one like Lightning Lad did. Didn't happen in Hickman's book, but I doubt he was complaining.

Hyperion = Mon-El: Hickman made this too easy. He's literally pulled out of what is basically the Phantom Zone, and he has Superman's powers.

Shang Chi = Karate Kid: Can't quite put my finger on it....

Sunspot = Sun Boy: Very clear. Aside from their powers, over in Hickman's Time Runs Out story he has Sunspot as a hotshot businessman with a lot of influence similar to how Sun Boy became a politician in 5 Years Later.

Manifold = Gates: They make portals. That's all I got.

Captain Universe = Star Boy: Pretty clear parallel with the take on Star Boy where he suffers from schizophrenia.

Hawkeye = Shrinking Violet (?): I don't f#&kin know, dude. They both wear purple and have super understated abilities? Pulled that one right out my ass. Ta-da!

Spider-Man = Ferro Lad: You're gonna laugh at this, but you totally know it works: they refuse to show their face to anyone on the team. *hold's up hand for hi-five*

Pod = Blok: Indestructible and powerful, but ultimately very innocent. Also both born from planets as their protectors. And if I recall, like Blok's sister, was girl, but didn't conventionally look it. Yes! I'm back in the game.

Black Widow = Phantom Girl: This is where it got tricky for a bit, but I'm going with Phantom Girl because of the stealth aspect.

Captain Marvel = Supergirl: Pretty easy given it's a blond woman wearing red and blue who mostly has all of Superman's powers.

Spider-Woman = Saturn Girl: There aren't any psychs on Hickman's team because, once again, that'd be too easy, but I'm picking Spider-Woman because of her pheromone ability. Similar to Saturn Girl she can influence people's behavior.

Iron Man = Wildfire: This was maybe the hardest to pick because believe it or not I almost said Saturn Girl, and, yeah, a case could be made for Brainy. But ultimately the fact that Tony needed his armor (and once needed it to, drumroll please, stay alive. *raises hand for hi-five*) and he's the sarcastic one who usually has some friction with the authority figure are what have me convinced.

Ex Nihilo = Element Lad: This literally just came to me, but it makes ALL the sense. Ex Nihilo has the power to create or transform with a touch, and obviously Element Lad does something very similar.

Abyss = Shadow Lass: Pretty clearly a far more serious mirror of Shadow Lass. The absence of of light in Shadow Lass' case, and the absence of life in Abyss'.

Hyperion's miracle children = Triplicate Girl: More specifically Waid's super ambitious take on Triplicate Girl.

Nightmask = Brainiac 5: You'd assume this would be Shadow Lass, but you'd be wrong. Regardless of the name, Nightmask actually has very little in the way of "night" or "darkness" related powers. His main deal, even more so than Tony, is being super freakin smart. His main role in conflicts was often dealing out information to and for the team and specifically our final Avenger on this list.

Starbrand = Superboy: Yup. He's not Star Boy, Sun Boy, or whoever else. He's as close to a fledgling Superboy as Hickman could get. For one, he's inducted into the already formed team similar to Superboy. He comes from a mild mannered background, but he holds a secret and important destiny that he can't even fathom, and it's a member of our team that tells him about it. Like Superboy, Star Brand's destiny is to protect and lead the world as it enters into its next stage of evolution. And like Superboy, he's the fish out of water character. And as we see demonstrated early on, he's insanely power even compared to the rest of his team. And last but not least, like Superboy and Brainiac 5, Star Brand and Nightmask are related by a shared destiny of sorts. As a bonus Star Brand's real name is an inverse of Superboy's real name. His name is Kevin Connor. KC as opposed to CK.

Thoughts?

[Midnight_v]

Well...

THANK YOU. I did not know this and would have never considered it even thought I see it on the forums from time to time.

Right now we have some ersatz team threads, and I'm EXTREMELY impressed at what he did here.

Also I think that you don't have to do (and maybe shouldn't do...) 100% EXACT replicas ala the spaces where you say "I got nothin" some times it about filing in roles to fill your own objective.

That being said I especially like the explanations fro Starbrand, Sun Boy, and Captain Universe.... I never quite understood WHY that character was... or where that idea came from but now that you point out...

Its schizophrenic starboy inspired. I'm slowly nodding and clapping.
I'm glad that he did it with the avengers instead but... seeing whats behind the curtain is really inspiring and reminds me of the power of fiction writing.

Its about telling the tales you want to tell.

[Superlad93]

Wow, I legitimately thought I'd get something more to the tune of "well duh", so thank you. I'm genuinely glad this was of any help in letting you appreciate the run in a new way.

Starbrand was maybe the hardest to wrap my head around because I'm such a big Superman fan, and I'm too close to the material. But once I thought about it it made almost too much sense. Though, I'll admit that Iron Man being a dead ringer for Wildfire is what I'm most proud of. The armor saving his life clinched it for me.

And I'm also inspired by how as a writer Hickman was able to cast his book and realize his characters in such a way that they remain distinctly them, but also cast clear parallels to the property he actually wanted to right. Doesn't get too much more skilled than that, I feel.

[Thor-Ul]

It is very interesting way to put it. I wondered which was the role of Hyperion on all that story and with your explanation it could have sense. Specially the relationship than Hyperion developted with Thor. You add than Hickman also in X-men made his own version of interlac and start to make more sense or if he is writing another Legion story too.

And the Legion got Bendis.

[CaptCleghorn]

I like your logic regarding the thread. The way Hickman handled his Avengers run was very much like a Legion run, or at least a Legion run as I'd like to see one.

I'm not sure there's much of a one-to-one relationship between Avengers and Legionnaires, though. It's common here to ask what's "DC's version of..." or "what's Marvel's version of..." but the similarities are in the overall concept rather than matching up the pieces. IMHO, anyway. A large cast, differing opinions, and multiple scenes encompassing different worlds and dimensions all are what a Legion story needs.

A Hickman Legion would be EPIC. His Avengers (and his X-Men as well) look like Legion. Charts and images that reflected the need for additional information, but still looked cool. Seriously, who is reading Hickman's mutant alphabet and not feeling disappointed he's not working with Interlac.

[Digifiend]

It is very interesting way to put it. I wondered which was the role of Hyperion on all that story and with your explanation it could have sense. Specially the relationship than Hyperion developted with Thor. You add than Hickman also in X-men made his own version of interlac and start to make more sense or if he is writing another Legion story too.

And the Legion got Bendis.

Legion was only available for Bendis because of Doomsday Clock's delays. It wasn't originally meant to come back until DDC ended, and had it finished a year earlier like it was meant to, then it seems there were other plans for them (that didn't involve Jon Kent - I wonder if it might have used Conner instead, since Young Justice wouldn't have been planned either before Bendis came to DC). That's why Saturn Girl was erased in DDC #11 - the plans for her had changed.

[Thor-Ul]

Legion was only available for Bendis because of Doomsday Clock's delays. It wasn't originally meant to come back until DDC ended, and had it finished a year earlier like it was meant to, then it seems there were other plans for them (that didn't involve Jon Kent - I wonder if it might have used Conner instead, since Young Justice wouldn't have been planned either before Bendis came to DC). That's why Saturn Girl was erased in DDC #11 - the plans for her had changed.

Is this know for sure, supported by some fact, an official or unofficial declaration or it is a speculation? Because I would like to believe it is true. But without sources, I can't. I wish it would be as you said, but without proof, I can't.

[Superlad93]

Is this know for sure, supported by some fact, an official or unofficial declaration or it is a speculation? Because I would like to believe it is true. But without sources, I can't. I wish it would be as you said, but without proof, I can't.

It's not proven nor sourced. I'm hoping we just leave it at that so this thread doesn't get derailed.

[Midnight_v]

It's not proven nor sourced. I'm hoping we just leave it at that so this thread doesn't get derailed.

I know that people aren't going to say "HEY MY AWARD WINNING RUN? YEAH ITS TOTALLY ANOTHER COMPANY'S THING"... it not the type of thing that gets sourced I'd think, but I certainly follow the logic.

I... was inspired by this a bit and wondered what if he had done the Illuminati with dc characters and time travel or trying to prevent a future crisis. Not meant to derail. Just meant to entertain. Hope you enjoy.
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...eams&p=4773120

[SiegePerilous02]

I want Hickman to come to DC and write Legion and Action Comics as intertwining narratives.

What pagan rituals do I have to perform to make this a reality.

[Thor-Ul]

It's not proven nor sourced. I'm hoping we just leave it at that so this thread doesn't get derailed.

It is fair.

I want Hickman to come to DC and write Legion and Action Comics as intertwining narratives.

What pagan rituals do I have to perform to make this a reality.

There must be a parallel universe where Hickman is writing the Legion. Travel there would be the best option.

[Riv86672]

Well...

THANK YOU. I did not know this and would have never considered it even thought I see it on the forums from time to time.

Right now we have some ersatz team threads, and I'm EXTREMELY impressed at what he did here.

Also I think that you don't have to do (and maybe shouldn't do...) 100% EXACT replicas ala the spaces where you say "I got nothin" some times it about filing in roles to fill your own objective.

That being said I especially like the explanations fro Starbrand, Sun Boy, and Captain Universe.... I never quite understood WHY that character was... or where that idea came from but now that you point out...

Its schizophrenic starboy inspired. I'm slowly nodding and clapping.
I'm glad that he did it with the avengers instead but... seeing whats behind the curtain is really inspiring and reminds me of the power of fiction writing.

Its about telling the tales you want to tell.

Glad I ran across this!
As a fan of team builds, i’m Extremely impressed too!

[Superlad93]

So it's been really nagging at the back of my mind how I ultimately didn't find a Legion parallel for Ex Nihilo and Abyss' guardian robot, Aleph.

But then it hit me...

The Great Darkness Saga. Hickman basically splits the ideas in the Great Darkness Saga between the main conflict with the Builders, and also with Marvel's very own Darksied, Thanos. Let me explain. Over in the Great Darkness Saga the idea is that Darksied is returning and the whole universe isn't ready for what he's about to bring. Over in Hickman's Avengers event, Infinity, he creates the Black Oder and they act as the classic Fatal Five Black Dwarf is Validus, Corvus Glaive is Persuader (Glaive's spear is said to cut through anything, and is even specifically shown to be able to cut the Superman powered Hyperion just to drive the point home), and so on and so forth. Hickman isn't very subtle about that. What he is a bit more subtle about though is how much parallel they share with Darkseid's avatars from the Great Darkness Saga. Similarly, they are the forerunners who proceed the return of their master, Thanos.

And to top it off, at the end of the event Thanos is shown to be too much of a match for our team, and they need help from Thanos' son. Just like how Orion, Darkseid's son, came back to fight him during the Great Darkness Saga.

So what does that have do with my Aleph problem? Well, as I said before, Hickman split the Great Darkseid saga's influence. The other half of it went to the Builders, the godlike creators of the universe who are now returning to bring their creation back to nothing. And one of the most iconic scenes and threats from the Great Darkness Saga is recreated using the Alephs: the mind controlled Daxamites.

The Alephs swarm the cosmos as drones killing whole planets in the name of their gods like the Daxamites did. And similar to the level of power that Daxamites display, Alephs are nearly unstoppable as shown by Hickman's opening arc.

Now I feel complete.

[Riv86672]

Haha, I love it, AND your commitment to getting it done till you feel it’s just right!

[Superlad93]

Hahaha, thank you! Well, if you're gonna do something, might as well do it right!