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  1. #31
    VEGETATIVE INJUSTICE! Kurisu's Avatar
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    I mean, DC kicked Marguritte Bennet off the Wonder Woman relaunch for Rucka and she had to beg for money for a medical procedure on Patreon as a result.

    Of course they do.

  2. #32
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Obviously in the past they did. I mean, not so long ago female talent weren't even allowed in the Superman offices because they had to be sequestered from a sex offender whom was the editor at the time. Talk about hobbling their opportunities. Now? I don't know, haven't read any reliable info (or any info at all actually) about the state of their offices in the past couple years. I'd imagine though the answer is still probably yes, as things don't change overnight.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  3. #33
    ...of the Black Priests Midnight_v's Avatar
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    Reading this thread. Seems that DC treat them roughly the same.
    Same company that and I quote "swindled" Alan Moore.
    But jokes aside it really sounds like they have it the same as everyone else there. I'm certain that you're not thinkng women and/or minorities should get some kind of special treatment not after all the many many talented artists that have done so well on merit?
    So... No.
    DC. Comics Has a lot of problems hobbling JUST the female writers doesn't stand up to any scrutiny.
    My priority is enjoying and supporting stories of timeless heroism and conflict.
    Everything else is irrelevant.

  4. #34
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Yes, but why can't they do the same thing in the mainline stories? Yes, there is less room for it, but there won't be no room. And it's not like the inter-book continuity is that strong. Just look at the concurrent Justice League Dark and Wonder Woman storylines under Tynion and Wilson, both doing all sorts of stuff with Olympos.
    I think DC titles feel much more insular then they used to, but at the same time I don't think Wilson was on the title near long enough to really play with the other stuff Diana was in.
    True. But I also believe that it is more of a problem for their female (or black, or other minority) writers, due to lots of reasons. One is that they have different frames of reference, that thus never gets to the fore due to being blocked by already decided plot twists. Another is that they have a harder breaking through to the inofficial lines of communication within DC. A third is that I've found that female (or minority) writers who make it generally are better and have more to say. It's no coincidence that a lot of the most interesting and ground-breaking prose science fiction and fantasy published right now is written by women, and often women of colour.

    I mean, if you hobble Steve Orlando creatively, no-one is going to notice. With someone like Wilson or DeConnick or Houser, it's a lot more apparent.
    I think that's, to a certain extent, a major issue for most new writers coming into the Big Two. Although maybe it stands out more when those new writers are more diverse then the average DC stable writer.

  5. #35
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    They should hire people who sell and follow instructions. Gender should not matter.
    Good Marvel characters- Bring Them Back!!!

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    And who gets those plum assignments? White middle-aged dudes
    Middle-aged white dudes who have experience writing those stuff.

    Snyder started as a horror novelist, DC likes his style and assigns him to Detective Comics, where he made a best seller in Black Mirror, so when there's a reboot he's transferred to Batman. He did the best selling world-building in Batman, and so halfway through Rebirth, they're confident enough to give him access to Justice League.

    Wilson started on DC with a bigger accolade than Snyder when he first started, and Eisner, but less experience in world-building except for a single series. So they put her on another solo, Wonder Woman. She's one of DC's biggest characters, a much older, more public character than Ms. Marvel, while Detective Comics is the less important Batman book, so at the starting point, she already has a leg up appropriate to her experience compared to Snyder. All that's left is to make Wonder Woman as successful as Ms. Marvel.

    Aside from that as another poster has mentioned, she rejected anything bigger because she's taking care of her child.

  7. #37
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    I always think it's strange that most female writers only get to write female characters.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Yes, but why does this happen so much more to female writers?
    Females & POC get the attention because we have heard so many horror stories from them way more than many of their white counterparts. And the fact in many cases they are small in number at this company.

    Many chose not to say anything UNTIL it hurts their pocket book. John Roszum was not going to say anything about New 52 Static and that editor until folks OPENLY told him they were going to boycott his work because of how he ruined Static.
    Excluding introducing Tanya Spears-John's replacement on Static-Scott McDaniel no longer gets calls from DC. Meanwhile that editor did the same mess on Cyborg with David Walker. He is now a FORMER Dc employee as of November 2019. No one from that Static book is employed at DC now. Other than the editor & Static cover artist-Khary Randolph-everyone else was white.

    We won't talk about the mess Dwayne McDuffie dealt with on Justice League or Static #25.
    Or The Burnside Batgirl, Lil Gotham, We Are Robin, Jenson's Green Lantern Corps mini, New 52 Firestorm and New 52 Action Comics had to deal with.

    It's not limited to women. Dc take equal shots at most writers. Then wonder why some don't comeback or have to eat CROW to get them to comeback. When those same writers Dc made miserable find success elsewhere.

  9. #39
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    No they don't.

  10. #40
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron chimp View Post
    If you think that about DC you should spend your dollars elsewhere and support independent female creators
    Guess what? I do (though mainly in prose form).

    But the big established publishers also need to step up their game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chubistian View Post
    I don't think it happens more to female writers, but that there aren't as many female writers as there are male writers, so that disproportion makes it seems that it happens more to women. That disproportion is a big problem that isn't solved yet.
    The disproportion and the hobbling are, I'd say, two different problems, but they both have similar sets of underlying reasons. Also, the disproportions are making the hobbling worse, and the hobbling are making it much harder for women to reach the more influential writing gigs.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Guess what? I do (though mainly in prose form).

    But the big established publishers also need to step up their game.



    The disproportion and the hobbling are, I'd say, two different problems, but they both have similar sets of underlying reasons. Also, the disproportions are making the hobbling worse, and the hobbling are making it much harder for women to reach the more influential writing gigs.
    From your op, youre buying DC books tho.... even after knowing the writers are going to be hobbled while working in a discriminatory, sexist environment....when you could be using those dollars you are spending with DC to fund womens work in a creatively independent supportive environment...

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron chimp View Post
    If you think that about DC you should spend your dollars elsewhere and support independent female creators
    Quote Originally Posted by iron chimp View Post
    From your op, youre buying DC books tho.... even after knowing the writers are going to be hobbled while working in a discriminatory, sexist environment....when you could be using those dollars you are spending with DC to fund womens work in a creatively independent supportive environment...
    Please take your whataboutism elsewhere.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAN9000 View Post
    I always think it's strange that most female writers only get to write female characters.
    That's downside of the trend of having female and minority characters only be written writers that match the same race, gender, sexuality ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chubistian View Post
    I don't think it happens more to female writers, but that there aren't as many female writers as there are male writers, so that disproportion makes it seems that it happens more to women.
    To a degree it might be also that there is just more media coverage when it happens to a female and minority writer.
    Last edited by Aahz; 01-12-2020 at 10:50 AM.

  14. #44
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    That's downside of the trend of having female and minority characters only be written writers that match the same race, gender, sexuality ...
    From what I've seen, the development of adding additional voices to a field tends to go in spirals, in fits and starts, and in some cases act more than a pendulum, rather than in any form of linear development. The creator side (like female writers) and the representation side (like female protagonists and characters) are also unlikely to be "in sync".

    The "authenticity" demand on creativity here is to me an over-reaction, but a needed one to a situation where there is a popularity of characters type X on the representation side, but they mostly stereotypically written by non-X writers. It's a combination of the call for both better representation and to give X creators a better chance in the market.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  15. #45
    Incredible Member docmidnite's Avatar
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    DC hobbies all of their writers, even their big name writers at times.

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