Does DC hobble its female writers?

[KangMiRae]

Wilson’s mediocre Wonder Woman run are the result of her own talents. She was known for Ms. Marvel, but couldn’t handle or translate her skills from that book to Diana’s. I don’t think she grasped Wonder Woman’s character as well she thought she did nor her and her supporting casts place in the greater DC universe.

Not to mention she left it as soon as she could write a Sandman book or whatever, which makes me think she never had complete interest on writing Wonder Woman at all, but rather settled for it until they gave her the book she wanted.

She gets no pass from me, even if there is an old guard at DC that stunts writing.

[Manakel]

Wilson’s mediocre Wonder Woman run are the result of her own talents. She was known for Ms. Marvel, but couldn’t handle or translate her skills from that book to Diana’s. I don’t think she grasped Wonder Woman’s character as well she thought she did nor her and her supporting casts place in the greater DC universe.

Not to mention she left it as soon as she could write a Sandman book or whatever, which makes me think she never had complete interest on writing Wonder Woman at all, but rather settled for it until they gave her the book she wanted.

She gets no pass from me, even if there is an old guard at DC that stunts writing.

I feell like Wilson (and probably other writers) agree to work on wonder woman only because of the prestige coming with the character but not for any interest in the character itself (they obiously don't say it officially)

[Chubistian]

Kelly Sue DeConnick seems to be doing great in Aquaman, same thing with N.K Jemison in Far Sector. I don't think, at least in the cases you mentioned, there is a gender problem, but just stuff that happens in both Marvel and DC. Year after year we hear about about these things that had to be changed or forced by editorial and events

[Aahz]

You will also find lots of examples for male writers, who's books got derailed by events and editorial decisions.

Thomasis Batman & Robin got completely derailed when they killed of Damain in Batman Inc, Nightwing got derailed several times in the last decade, the last Green Arrow writers said something along the lines of that they never really got to write their own story since the book cancelled by the time they had finally managed to wrap up the fall out from the previous run, Heros in Crisis and No Justice.

[Restingvoice]

You will also find lots of examples for male writers, who's books got derailed by events and editorial decisions.

Thomasis Batman & Robin got completely derailed when they killed of Damain in Batman Inc, Nightwing got derailed several times in the last decade, the last Green Arrow writers said something along the lines of that they never really got to write their own story since the book cancelled by the time they had finally managed to wrap up the fall out from the previous run, Heros in Crisis and No Justice.

Tomasi knew that Damian was going to die so he's prepared for that. His big derailment though is Super Sons.

[Aahz]

Tomasi knew that Damian was going to die so he's prepared for that.

It was probably still not what he wanted to do with Damian.

[The Darknight Detective]

I will never, ever understand the thinking regarding anybody from CB management intentionally sabotaging their own titles. The object is to make more money, not less.

[Timber Wolf-By-Night]

I will never, ever understand the thinking regarding anybody from CB management intentionally sabotaging their own titles. The object is to make more money, not less.

And I will never, ever understand your thinking that things like ego, incompetence, personal agenda, etc. have never and will never get in the way of making money. Human nature is not just about greed.

[The Darknight Detective]

And I will never, ever understand your thinking that things like ego, incompetence, personal agenda, etc. have never and will never get in the way of making money. Human nature is not just about greed.

Incompetence and ego, i.e., are different things. That I understand. Hiring someone in order for them to hurt a comic's sales? Nope. Maybe you keep them out of the way, but you don't hurt the bottom line via an agenda. Anybody involved in management knows this - at least those successful at it, that is.

[Flash Gordon]

Cecil Castellucci is doing some of the best work out there. Shade the Changing Girl/Woman, Female Furies, Batgirl- all rad. I will read anything she puts out, I've been buying her kids titles too.

I really wanted Joelle Jones to take over as writer on Batman after King. Her Catwoman is really interesting and idiosyncratic. She could do really great stuff with DC's marquee title.

[Ulysses]

I really wanted Joelle Jones to take over as writer on Batman after King. Her Catwoman is really interesting and idiosyncratic. She could do really great stuff with DC's marquee title.

I think it might have been too quick a step up. Cawoman’s good but the Creel story is dragging. But she has the makings of a being a strong writer.

[kjn]

Going to replace to a lot of stuff here, but I think I'll have to put in some feminist theory as well, in various places.

But the very nature of Zoom/Ink is what allows them to do that. It's outside of continuity. It's a clean slate. You can't do those books in an expanded universe as it will conflict with other characters in other books. There won't be that creative freedom there. And I say that as someone that adores the Zoom/Ink stuff.

Yes, but why can't they do the same thing in the mainline stories? Yes, there is less room for it, but there won't be no room. And it's not like the inter-book continuity is that strong. Just look at the concurrent Justice League Dark and Wonder Woman storylines under Tynion and Wilson, both doing all sorts of stuff with Olympos.

I feel like DC hobbles a lot of their writers, male or female.

True. But I also believe that it is more of a problem for their female (or black, or other minority) writers, due to lots of reasons. One is that they have different frames of reference, that thus never gets to the fore due to being blocked by already decided plot twists. Another is that they have a harder breaking through to the inofficial lines of communication within DC. A third is that I've found that female (or minority) writers who make it generally are better and have more to say. It's no coincidence that a lot of the most interesting and ground-breaking prose science fiction and fantasy published right now is written by women, and often women of colour.

I mean, if you hobble Steve Orlando creatively, no-one is going to notice. With someone like Wilson or DeConnick or Houser, it's a lot more apparent.

Besides Ms. Marvel has Wilson write anything bigger, by big I mean line-wide world-building stuff?

Because what I see from DC is they have this centralized hierarchy. Starting at the top, the line-wide worldbuilding stuff is prioritized, then the cash cow like Batman, then the others.

And who gets those plum assignments? White middle-aged dudes.

Do not ascribe conspiracy where incompetence is as likely an explanation.

I doubt there is a anti-female conspiracy at DC. At least no less or more than you can find in other parts of society. But it doesn't need to be to create an environment that might be toxic to women, or consistently overlooks them.

Look no further than that the people protecting Eddie Berganza are still in charge over at DC. While Berganza might be gone, the people who didn't listen to women about him are still there.

While inability to see or listen to women may not be dependant on malice, the consequences are just as bad.

In the case of Wilson, I'm not sure how much blame we can lay at editorial's feet when there are valid criticisms of her run's writing that have no obvious editorial interference. The art situation was bad, but a good writer can still write a compelling story even with mediocre art.

I don't want to turn this into a Wilson debate, but I'm especially thinking of one thing: the transfer of the Godkiller to Cheetah and Cheetah's following rampage. Because when I read that sequence, it was extremely rushed. Wilson had a long-term storyline for Diana and Themyscira, but then was told to tie into YotV and the Cheetah, and wasn't given enough writing time or room in the story to set things up properly.

It might be because Wilson did poor planning. Or it might be that she was forced to do a rush job by DC. My
money's on the latter.

Kelly Sue DeConnick seems to be doing great in Aquaman, same thing with N.K Jemison in Far Sector. I don't think, at least in the cases you mentioned, there is a gender problem, but just stuff that happens in both Marvel and DC. Year after year we hear about about these things that had to be changed or forced by editorial and events

Yes, but why does this happen so much more to female writers?

[Ulysses]

Look no further than that the people protecting Eddie Berganza are still in charge over at DC. While Berganza might be gone, the people who didn't listen to women about him are still there.

Cans of worms, you have a knack for opening them . Again, Occam's razor applies. General incompetence will suffice to explain this. Feminist theory is not required.

I'll have to put in some feminist theory

Well, as I pointed out you don't have too.I actually have an interest in feminist theory. I read feminine mystique, I read Ruth Rosen's history of feminism, I read a respectable amount of the original zines (70s Red Stockings especially) and did a pretty deep dive into Steinem. But..... as my sig indicates, I'm a thought criminal in these parts. And I'd like to avoid the hammer of the mods for the time being. So I can't speak freely. If you want to discuss face to face, that would be amenable to me. PM me. I offer this because face to face almost always is productive. In text, fights break out.

[iron chimp]

Going to replace to a lot of stuff here, but I think I'll have to put in some feminist theory as well, in various places.



Yes, but why can't they do the same thing in the mainline stories? Yes, there is less room for it, but there won't be no room. And it's not like the inter-book continuity is that strong. Just look at the concurrent Justice League Dark and Wonder Woman storylines under Tynion and Wilson, both doing all sorts of stuff with Olympos.



True. But I also believe that it is more of a problem for their female (or black, or other minority) writers, due to lots of reasons. One is that they have different frames of reference, that thus never gets to the fore due to being blocked by already decided plot twists. Another is that they have a harder breaking through to the inofficial lines of communication within DC. A third is that I've found that female (or minority) writers who make it generally are better and have more to say. It's no coincidence that a lot of the most interesting and ground-breaking prose science fiction and fantasy published right now is written by women, and often women of colour.

I mean, if you hobble Steve Orlando creatively, no-one is going to notice. With someone like Wilson or DeConnick or Houser, it's a lot more apparent.



And who gets those plum assignments? White middle-aged dudes.



I doubt there is a anti-female conspiracy at DC. At least no less or more than you can find in other parts of society. But it doesn't need to be to create an environment that might be toxic to women, or consistently overlooks them.

Look no further than that the people protecting Eddie Berganza are still in charge over at DC. While Berganza might be gone, the people who didn't listen to women about him are still there.

While inability to see or listen to women may not be dependant on malice, the consequences are just as bad.



I don't want to turn this into a Wilson debate, but I'm especially thinking of one thing: the transfer of the Godkiller to Cheetah and Cheetah's following rampage. Because when I read that sequence, it was extremely rushed. Wilson had a long-term storyline for Diana and Themyscira, but then was told to tie into YotV and the Cheetah, and wasn't given enough writing time or room in the story to set things up properly.

It might be because Wilson did poor planning. Or it might be that she was forced to do a rush job by DC. My
money's on the latter.



Yes, but why does this happen so much more to female writers?

If you think that about DC you should spend your dollars elsewhere and support independent female creators

[Chubistian]

Yes, but why does this happen so much more to female writers?

I don't think it happens more to female writers, but that there aren't as many female writers as there are male writers, so that disproportion makes it seems that it happens more to women. That disproportion is a big problem that isn't solved yet.