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  1. #601
    Militantly Indifferent Kisinith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    Who does Moira surround herself with? Who does she manipulate? Men.

    While in her journals and her interaction with Destiny, there is a much deeper dislike for her. Not that I think she likes men that much. She basically thinks Apocalypse is an idiot and Magneto and Xavier sre easy to control.
    She is with Xavier and Magneto because she needs them, not because they are men. She has undeniable tension surrounding Destiny, not because she's a woman but because...1.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    And again, we will see where Krakoa goes on this. Because again, we are in the early, easy stages. And it isn't just the theory about reproduction, but also all the other concerns many of us have expressed.

    Krakoa just seems too perfect, yet there are so many, many things just waiting to explode. It's hard to pick just one.
    Yeah, so? Thats not justification for making up plot points that don't exist and ignoring ones that do. Its one thing to criticize for something that they did, God knows Marvel and the X-Office have given us plenty of things to criticize over the years. Its one thing to dislike something even if its otherwise wildly popular, opinions are totally fair game and you don't need to justify or explain them. Its another thing entirely to make up plot points to criticize them over.

    As far as having many, many things waiting to explode... Well, yeah. Thats what you do with stories, you build up areas of conflict. As Anduinel points out thats Narrative tension.

  2. #602
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    Even if a woman doesn't have a uterus or can't get pregnant, just having to face the responsibility of having kids is bad enough.

    And we're still in Krakoa's early stages. Things are still going good. Given the wording of the law and the fact that several high-ranking council members are known misogynists, if things get bad, I do expect more pressure on women to have babies.

    I mean, let's be honest here, Moira needs more people for her plan and she honestly doesn't seem to like her fellow women all that much
    There isnít any responsibility. Not only has Hickman made it clear, but plenty of us already told you that the Law isnít putting a burden on people who can get pregnant and that there is more than one way to help make that Law work without procreative sex. Also if a person canít get pregnant, how are they facing a responsibility they literally do not have. No one if going around telling trans women that they NEED to get pregnant.

  3. #603
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Awww invading countries known for worldwide imperialism and slavery. I’m all for decolonization, but this way also works. Go Krakoa!!!

    Yas Hunty!!
    GrindrStone(D)

  4. #604
    Incredible Member Ferro's Avatar
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    either krakoa is too perfect or the tension is unacceptable, pick a narrative and stick to it

  5. #605
    Incredible Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    That's a good point. The people on Krakoa don't have much need for money that we've seen, since all of their needs are provided for. We haven't seen anything like an internal economy or even things like stores and restaurants, which is really weird. But if anyone wants to interact with the outside world, they'll need money.
    That would be surprising that Krakoa is self-sufficient in everythingÖ And politically, it would be a mistake: trade relations are a stability factor and enable to ease tensions.
    "Ö something strong and soft and green,
    thrusting through the dead and petrified grayness."
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    If I offended you, be assured that it wasn't my intention. English is not my first language.

  6. #606
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    That would be surprising that Krakoa is self-sufficient in everything… And politically, it would be a mistake: trade relations are a stability factor and enable to ease tensions.
    Krakoa has trade and diplomatic relations with a lot of nations I don`t think they are using the dollar to trade, they should have their own national currency. Jean talked about Emma paying for their drinks so its obvious Krakoa still works with money, it`s just the basic needs of medicine, food, home are already covered by the state and the island itself ibut we don`t know still how that works, I guess we will get future data pages covering that. So far Krakoa feels and looks like the home of the Elfs from the Lord of the Rings, a naturalist Utopy but one that also deals with real world matters of global trade, diplomacy and foreing relations.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  7. #607
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    There isn’t any responsibility. Not only has Hickman made it clear, but plenty of us already told you that the Law isn’t putting a burden on people who can get pregnant and that there is more than one way to help make that Law work without procreative sex. Also if a person can’t get pregnant, how are they facing a responsibility they literally do not have. No one if going around telling trans women that they NEED to get pregnant.
    I'm not the one who actually brought up the part about trans women or women without a uterus or who can't get pregnant.

    Unless I did, because this thread has been going on a while.

    But I do not think I or the other posters are wrong to be concerned about this part of the narrative in some way, especially with the signs that the chimeras will be coming soon. Even if women aren't forcibly impregnated-none of us really want to see that- there's the fact that mutants need more mutants and what will be done to get them?

  8. #608
    Incredible Member Ferro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Krakoa has trade and diplomatic relations with a lot of nations I don`t think they are using the dollar to trade, they should have their own national currency. Jean talked about Emma paying for their drinks so its obvious Krakoa still works with money, it`s just the basic needs of medicine, food, home are already covered by the state and the island itself ibut we don`t know still how that works, I guess we will get future data pages covering that. So far Krakoa feels and looks like the home of the Elfs from the Lord of the Rings, a naturalist Utopy but one that also deals with real world matters of global trade, diplomacy and foreing relations.
    yeah we just have to wait since its a difrent nation from what we know from humanity, but i presume crafting foods, specific plants/materials from krakoa (like we saw the savage land habitat) art, entertainment, education, advanced tech will probably be the main island industries, i can also see investigation/exploration/mining in more exotic habitats like on mars

  9. #609
    Militantly Indifferent Kisinith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Krakoa has trade and diplomatic relations with a lot of nations I don`t think they are using the dollar to trade, they should have their own national currency. Jean talked about Emma paying for their drinks so its obvious Krakoa still works with money, it`s just the basic needs of medicine, food, home are already covered by the state and the island itself ibut we don`t know still how that works, I guess we will get future data pages covering that. So far Krakoa feels and looks like the home of the Elfs from the Lord of the Rings, a naturalist Utopy but one that also deals with real world matters of global trade, diplomacy and foreing relations.
    I don't think we need to go that deep into the economics of Krakoa. Don't misunderstand me, I'd love to see it but its a comic book not a sociological dissertation on a mutant utopian society. Although I'm also a huge nerd in that way, the vast majority of X-Men readers aren't, they are in it for the claws and laser beams. I think that its enough to say that they have commerce without going to deep into the nuts and bolts unless its relevant to the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    I'm not the one who actually brought up the part about trans women or women without a uterus or who can't get pregnant.

    Unless I did, because this thread has been going on a while.

    But I do not think I or the other posters are wrong to be concerned about this part of the narrative in some way, especially with the signs that the chimeras will be coming soon. Even if women aren't forcibly impregnated-none of us really want to see that- there's the fact that mutants need more mutants and what will be done to get them?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hickman
    Saying that, even a strict reading of the law doesn’t change the fact that I showed you three (four if you were watching closely) ways that mutants can reproduce, and only one of those is in the ‘traditional’ hetro manner (that’s also leaving out pretty commonplace practices like IVF and surrogacy, which seem to me to support the spirit of the law).
    "...I do want to point out that story-wise we’re also leaning into the fact that there are going to be thousands of mutant children showing up on Krakoa in search of their mutant family. So while a spirit of adoption isn’t really what you were asking about, I do think it matters contextually as what we’re talking about here is a communal parent/child relationship and what flows from that into the next generation."
    You also have the ongoing resurrection process and 16 million dead Genoshan mutants, the data page in HoX #5 indicates that in a best case scenario that it would take upwards of 10 years to eventually bring them all back. Between the thousands of arriving mutant children and thousands of resurrected dead, that gives a pretty huge population boom to take care of. Piling unwanted or unwelcome pregnancies on top is an unneeded and unnecessary complication from a purely logical standpoint, hugely out of character for the vast number of X-Men and a theory thats been shot down (gently) by the writer.
    Last edited by Kisinith; 01-24-2020 at 03:05 PM.

  10. #610
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    I'm not the one who actually brought up the part about trans women or women without a uterus or who can't get pregnant. Unless I did, because this thread has been going on a while. I do not think I or the other posters are wrong to be concerned about this part of the narrative in some way, especially with the signs that the chimeras will be coming soon. Even if women aren't forcibly impregnated-none of us really want to see that- there's the fact that mutants need more mutants and what will be done to get them?

    The plan seems to get back their numbers with the help of the fives and Xavier doing their thing. I really don`t see at all this supposed fear of women being "forcibly impregnated" why the hell would anyone do that? sr that sounds morel like fans making up their own hc and then being worried and complain about them beeing on the story when that`s not even part of the story at all. Mutants will have children when they want to make their family not because the state is saying they should and it certainly never said anything about it being an order. The "More mutants" law is a play of words made to counteract "No more mutants" it`s a direct opposition to Wanda`s(and marvel`s) decimation sentence and it was understood that way by them all, especially Magneto and his little smile after Kurt said that, they are happy because now they can make jokes about M-day.

    x-11-18-982x1024.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith
    I don't think we need to go that deep into the economics of Krakoa. Don't misunderstand me, I'd love to see it but its a comic book not a sociological dissertation on a mutant utopian society. Although I'm also a huge nerd in that way, the vast majority of X-Men readers aren't, they are in it for the claws and laser beams. I think that its enough to say that they have commerce without going to deep into the nuts and bolts unless its relevant to the story.
    Agreed I am a huge nerd too but don`t want a comic about it either, just a data page covering that should be enought unless it`s relevant to future stories. In New mutants Dany and Roberto talked mutant history, their schools, krakoan made coffe, Apocalypse is covering mutant magic, I am sure Moira is still doing research, Forge is making new tecnology, Magneto and Xavier are doing politics and Emma and the Marauders are taking care of trade. little by little all this is being talked about so I don`t think more is neccesary tbh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro
    yeah we just have to wait since its a difrent nation from what we know from humanity, but i presume crafting foods, specific plants/materials from krakoa (like we saw the savage land habitat) art, entertainment, education, advanced tech will probably be the main island industries, i can also see investigation/exploration/mining in more exotic habitats like on mars
    Exactly
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 01-24-2020 at 03:32 PM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

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