I only read scans. I wanted context.
"Danielle... I intend to do something rash and violent." - Betsy Braddock
Krakoa, Arakko, and Otherworld forever!
OK
Just letting everyone on here know that I'm not too well as of now (post operative neuralgia) and am kind of fighting to get my pain under control. Just been glancing through the last few pages, however, and I want to say that I'm not pleased with the level of sniping at other users going on here.
I want to remind people: This is a safe place for people to openly discuss what they do/do not like about this concept and EXPLAIN OR ASK WHY. That means that we acknowledge, here that no one interpretation is uniform:
Tycon, you posted that scan of Fallen Angels #5, why do you and Jbenito believe that, though we are finally seeing a group of mutants not quite settled with Krakoa's direction, we'll be seeing that theme carried on in future titles? Does one group truly speak on a broad enough scale that attitudes on Krakoa can be considered "balanced", especially when this particular group is acting 'covert', i.e, underground. Could this attitude not be considered unpopular about the main island? What are the implications of that?
I actually feel the same way here; it feels difficult, at times, to discern where any 'genuine' compassion or even affection comes from. I do find, though, that it depends on which character that comes from. So, for example, I find Logan's argument against falling into an 'Us vs them' mentality much more genuine than seeing Scott interact with his father, or even Jean's defence as seen in Orchis.
I wonder, at times, if this is due to either how it's said, or what sort of 'air' we get from a character? Or if it's perhaps influenced by more than that? By who gets on with who?
The entirety of the "Quiet council", for example; the air that all characters who are part of that, to me, seems off-putting for some reason; there's a heightened arrogance there that I can't tell if comes as part of being a politician, or from such hypocrisy as you've stated?
What about those of you who feel to the contrary: what do you think?
Well, no contradictory opinion from me, because I feel the same way as Rosebusne from the scans I see…
This Magneto, the way he is described, is completely out-of-character for me: the arrogance he felt in the past (Claremont's era) came from thinking he was right, that he knows better than anyone thanks to his (bad) experience, it wasn't about his powers, he wasn't a supremacist… However, it is the way it is written lately ("we are gods…"). The same for Ororo… Again and again… in the past, it has been said that Ororo wasn't a goddess. Now she seems to take herself very seriously which is not sympathetic from my point of view.
The drawing doesn't help too… too expressionless…
“Strength is the lot of but a few privileged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.” Goethe
Can I ask, when you say "what is should stand for", what do you mean? (Genuinely curious)
And, in regards to mutant solidarity--I suppose this invites another interesting question for discussion: how easy would it be for any of us to extend forgiveness to someone who's harmed and even traumatised us if they either haven't offered an apology or made any efforts towards making it up to us?
Is it fair that mutant antagonisers are forgiven for their past crimes by virtue of genetics while a human who might have committed a similar deed is not? Let's all discuss.
Now that's really interesting in regards to Magneto! Might I ask; what about Claremont's era prevented you from seeing him as a supremacist? Was it because you were able to better sympathise with him because he too was, in a sense, an underdog? Or...?
And what do you feel about Ororo's acting, to you, seems to be pushing her towards a "supremacist" attitude, if I'm understanding right? I know the fandom has often celebrated her as a goddess, despite her saying to the contrary (though she is descended from a godly bloodline!) is there, perhaps, some bias on the fandom's part in regards to how they want or expect her to react vs how the character actually might? And is that even a fair point to bring up in the first place?
Magneto has always insisted that there were no peace possible between mutants and 'humans', that the 'humans' will always be too afraid of them to be able to accept them. It was his bone of contention with Charles Xavier.
In a way, what he said was logical: his powers were really terrifying… But the corollary of that is, if the humans weren't afraid of the mutants, his argument would have disappeared and he would have no problems with living with the humans…
He shared the same dream than Charles Xavier, back then, the only difference was about the attitude of the 'humans' which is logical: they come from very different backgrounds…
I don't know about the fandom, but I remember Ororo as a kind person, elegant and full of dignity. Pretentious is the last word who could define her… The way she talks now… but I only read the scans, so…
“Strength is the lot of but a few privileged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.” Goethe
I'm becoming increasingly annoyed that they're already poking holes in the "Kill No Man" rule. When they put that rule in place, they justified it as "We're immortal and they are not. It is not right for us to kill those with finite lives." I don't sympathize with the cartoon racists and mercs who've shown up in Marauders and X-Force, but if they immediately ditch in when they get attacked then it feels pretty pointless. Especially considering the gravitas that original scene had, and the fact that its one of the only 3 laws the entire country has.
It was understood to not be an absolute prohibition right at the outset, that there would be legitimate exceptions. So far the only two that have come up are in X-Force who its been stated have a mandated exception and one line to Lockheed in Marauders, who was defending Iceman against militant aggressive attackers. Also side-point Lockheed would be acting in self defense and he isn't a mutant so isn't subject to the resurrection protocols.
Yeah, I think they've respected the spirit of the law. The humans they've killed were clearly aggressors (for example, in the X-Force issue those mercs absolutely slaughtered the civilian human staff at the Green Peace facility), so they weren't violating the law. However, if only for juicy story purposes I'd love to see scumbags like Exodus, Apocalypse, etc... kill off humans and then come up with justifications that prevent them from being punished, but make Jean, Kurt, etc... squirm and seethe. That'd be fertile ground for more storytelling, both with factions forming on the council itself and in Krakoan society in general. A story where the good guys on the island are fighting a battle of ideologies on the island would be fascinating.
I was under the impression that fans decided that "edicts" meant "a loose set of guidelines".
Or are we going to hop on the "mutant abortion" merry-go-round again?
Krakoa needs to be gayer.
Last edited by H-E-D; 01-19-2020 at 08:59 PM.