What do you like/dislike about Krakoa? (As a concept)

[CoCoBandz]

I argue that's over-simplifying it just a bit.

Sometimes the truth is that simple.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

And I think that's the main thing to recognize. The mutants have been trying to coexist, live among humans. It has failed so far.

But that doesn't mean they need to give up completely on it; not when there's new mutants to be born from humans. Just like real life: world peace seems impossible, but does that mean we can all just give up and nuke each other? No.

By all means, the tactics should change but complete disowning of their families, friends, genetic cousins, whatever shouldn't be the end-game.

[JB]

Here's an odd question: how many genocide attempts have their actually been? I'm including the big ones like House of M and the small ones that were the plots of smaller books. And conversely, how many times have mutants attempted genocide of everyone else?

It's hard to say because we've seen a lot of scenes like this before, groups running around hunting mutants:



As for the other way around, I wouldn't mind knowing that either.

[JB]

But that doesn't mean they need to give up completely on it; not when there's new mutants to be born from humans. Just like real life: world peace seems impossible, but does that mean we can all just give up and nuke each other? No.

Ahhh, but I don't at all see it as them giving up completely. Betsy would have ripped off her CB costume if she didn't care.

[CoCoBandz]

But that doesn't mean they need to give up completely on it; not when there's new mutants to be born from humans. Just like real life: world peace seems impossible, but does that mean we can all just give up and nuke each other? No.

They haven't given up though. They're just playing hardball and want humanity to finally meet them halfway now with no BS

Different approach.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Sometimes the truth is that simple.

Ok, well, this is a thread designed for much more in-depth discussion. I think you might be happier elsewhere.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

They haven't given up though. They're just playing hardball and want humanity to finally meet them halfway now with no BS

Different approach.

But they don't have to disown humanity or talk down to them as a whole to do it.

[CoCoBandz]

Ok, well, this is a thread designed for much more in-depth discussion. I think you might be happier elsewhere.

The past 20 pages have been posters cycling through the same points to no avail. I'm just responding how, I see fit to avoid repeating myself and what others have already went over numerous times.

[pkingdom]

How do we know that its been a total failure? We've mostly followed the X-men and their small circle of allies and influence. We rarely ever see mutants in other countries and how they are treated there. Just because it sucks in the US doesn't mean that its terrible in, say, Finland. And a lot of the worst atrocities faced by mutants have been the work of individuals and small organizations. The government has tried to regulate mutants before (hi Days of Future Past), but its wasn't until recently that they actively tried to cure mutants. But I could be wrong and mis-remembering the details.

Jbento we also have scenes of Magneto razing cities. Also, that page gets posted a lot and I have no idea where its from or what's going on. Who killed those people?

[CoCoBandz]

But they don't have to disown humanity or talk down to them as a whole to do it.

I assume you're referring to Magneto at the summit?

We all know Magneto has an ego and still for the most part doesn't particularly respect the human PTB.

On the other hand Charles told those same people that he still loves them and still believes in them despite knowing that one of them had a team of assassins waiting to kill him and his council peers at a moment's notice.

And where do you get that they disowned humanity?

How do we know that its been a total failure? We've mostly followed the X-men and their small circle of allies and influence. We rarely ever see mutants in other countries and how they are treated there. Just because it sucks in the US doesn't mean that its terrible in, say, Finland. And a lot of the worst atrocities faced by mutants have been the work of individuals and small organizations. The government has tried to regulate mutants before (hi Days of Future Past), but its wasn't until recently that they actively tried to cure mutants. But I could be wrong and mis-remembering the details.

Jbento we also have scenes of Magneto razing cities. Also, that page gets posted a lot and I have no idea where its from or what's going on. Who killed those people?

That scene's from Extraordinary X-Men.

Humans decided to round up M-Pox infected mutants and slaughter them because the outbreak had been deemed their fault even though it not only didn't get caused by them, but the disease only affected mutants.

Also the only time I recall Magneto causing widespread chaos was when he EMP struck the planet for firing nukes at Avalon.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

The past 20 pages have been posters cycling through the same points to no avail. I'm just responding how, I see fit to avoid repeating myself and what others have already went over numerous times.

As I've said; this isn't an argument thread designed to 'prove' anything--it's meant to further question why readers on an individual scale like/dislike about Krakoa. What they see, what affects their reading in regards to the topics, why they respond as they do. It's designed to facilitate discussion and let everyone see things from the other side (Yes, including your's.) Hence all the awkward, probing questions.

Please, can we not fight here?

Why do you feel as you do about this new direction and what do you think influences such? How can those of us who don't see what you see, well...get a glimpse?

[CoCoBandz]

As I've said; this isn't an argument thread designed to 'prove' anything--it's meant to further question why readers on an individual scale like/dislike about Krakoa. What they see, what affects their reading in regards to the topics, why they respond as they do. It's designed to facilitate discussion and let everyone see things from the other side (Yes, including your's.) Hence all the awkward, probing questions.

Please, can we not fight here?

Why do you feel as you do about this new direction and what do you think influences such? How can those of us who don't see what you see, well...get a glimpse?

I'm not fighting.

You asked a question and, I answered. Now let's move on.

What makes you say that mutants have disowned humanity?

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

I assume you're referring to Magneto at the summit?

We all know Magneto has an ego and still for the most part doesn't particularly respect the human PTB.

On the other hand Charles told those same people that he still loves them and still believes in them despite knowing that one of them had a team of assassins waiting to kill him and his council peers at a moment's notice.

And where do you get that they disowned humanity?

Passive commentary dotted about since HOX/POX. Off the top of my head:

"Humans, is there any good in them?" --Lorna Davis

"A little dose of humanity to go with her humanity." "Let's get them out of those human clothes" --Emma Frost

Everything Magneto/Erik says when addressing anyone isn't a mutant, including comments about about religion, belief, institutions, ect from HOX #1. I can't list all that here, dude, I'm sorry.

"Human ideologies and institutions were never meant for something better" -- Dani Moonstar

"Man should know when he is beaten--he should know to break and run...or surrender and ask for unearned mercy..."--Ororo Munroe

[JB]

How do we know that its been a total failure? We've mostly followed the X-men and their small circle of allies and influence. We rarely ever see mutants in other countries and how they are treated there. Just because it sucks in the US doesn't mean that its terrible in, say, Finland. And a lot of the worst atrocities faced by mutants have been the work of individuals and small organizations. The government has tried to regulate mutants before (hi Days of Future Past), but its wasn't until recently that they actively tried to cure mutants. But I could be wrong and mis-remembering the details.

Jbento we also have scenes of Magneto razing cities. Also, that page gets posted a lot and I have no idea where its from or what's going on. Who killed those people?

Well we have Moira's lives where she saw no way for the mutants to survive. And I'd have to look back at Rosecanny for exact details but there was a lot of talk of how dark the world became. We had Scott and crew smuggle mutants to a random country that was still friendly to mutants. If any of the better known countries were friendly, that would have been an easier transfer. (By the way, Val Cooper was responsible for that, a PLUS for humanity for sure)

Also if not for the resurrection process, most of our heroes would be dead now.

Extraordinary X-Men. Let me see if I can pull some context for you. It was after the Mist was released and [some] humans around the world saw it as an opportunity to end mutants forever and started killing them.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

I'm not fighting.

You asked a question and, I answered. Now let's move on.

What makes you say that mutants have disowned humanity?

Thankyou; by the way, I've answered your previous question too which, I think, does warrant some discussion. No-one's really gone into much detail about the divide some of these statements cause and/or their meaning.

(By the way, not putting this on you to answer--this is designed for the whole group!)