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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    I posted a page from Immortal Hulk in another topic, where after Banner went on a rant about how he's going to fix the world by breaking the right things, Amadeus Cho tells him that he's 'a middle age white man ranting about revolution, and that almost never ends well'. That is the kind of self-awareness and analysis that I am not seeing in the current run. Its mostly been a bunch of the mutant elite certain of their superiority despite getting their faces shoved in over and over again
    Ha!! Ok, good point!

    So, really, the narrative feels a bit tone-deaf in that respect? You don't feel it's as complex as what you saw in the Immortal hulk?

  2. #62
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Ok, all good points! So:

    What makes this more interesting for you than the school? How is it so different apart from it obviously being an island? Is it the nation building, or...? Also, how do you feel that this evolves the mutants narrative?
    With Krakoa, I feel that a lot more characters can be involved than the school. The Island is large enough to house everyone, but allow them to do what suits their character.

    For decades we've seen the X-Men in particular fighting for coexistence to no avail. These past few years in particular have been rough, so I think its logical for them to try a different approach. Putting themselves first, and trying to restore those they've lost, and attempt to act as a united front, as opposed to fighting one another, is different that what we are used to seeing. I think it makes sense seeing as how all this division before Krakoa had gotten them no where.

  3. #63
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Also, here's a question for everyone:

    Does the drastic change bother any of you?

    And I'd like to remind everyone that this is a judgement-free thread! It's perfectly fine if that's so; in fact, we should all talk about it and see why!
    Yes, because I can't see them as heroes anymore. I don't see how you can ever go back to any kind of heroic stories with these characters after this. I'll always see them as people willing to just give up on the world and throw their lot in with Sinister and Apocalypse. Once you work with people like that, let alone start letting them call the shots, your moral credibility is damaged.

  4. #64
    Smart & Swift & Violent Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    I don't. It's a cool setting.

    Threatening to kidnap or convert other superheroes' kids is pretty awful though and the X-Men should maybe remember to be superheroes too.

    But I've never been into the "X-Men is about extinction and survival" thing, not even when they did it constantly for the past 15 years starting with Utopia. Barf.
    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
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  5. #65
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    We definitely didn't need two threads for this concept. Merged. Keep it civil please.
    You brought back Wolverine

    The CBR Community Standards a.k.a how to get along.

  6. #66
    Incredible Member starduck's Avatar
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    I don't hate it. I just think it could use more Jean Grey

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    I don't. It's a cool setting.

    Threatening to kidnap or convert other superheroes' kids is pretty awful though and the X-Men should maybe remember to be superheroes too.

    But I've never been into the "X-Men is about extinction and survival" thing, not even when they did it constantly for the past 15 years starting with Utopia. Barf.
    Now this is an extremely varied view!! Please, can I ask you what makes you feel this way? I'd love a bit more insight!

  8. #68
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    Krakoa as a setting is a bit gimmicky and will get tiring after a few years unless writers take it more seriously. Tree chicken, dishwashing goo, plugging flash drives into trees — it’s kinda fun but stupid. There needs to be replacements for Harry’s bar, Storm’s attic room, ballet classes in Westchester, danger room sessions, erotic pool parties, Xavier’s Rolls-Royce — Krakoa needs to feel lived in. Teenage background mutants dancing around bonfires isn’t doing it for me.

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    Yes, because I can't see them as heroes anymore. I don't see how you can ever go back to any kind of heroic stories with these characters after this. I'll always see them as people willing to just give up on the world and throw their lot in with Sinister and Apocalypse. Once you work with people like that, let alone start letting them call the shots, your moral credibility is damaged.
    Definitely a fair point!

    Would you say you feel a bit betrayed, perhaps, by these characters? Or does the narrative feel a bit too false for this to work?

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    Krakoa as a setting is a bit gimmicky and will get tiring after a few years unless writers take it more seriously. Tree chicken, dishwashing goo, plugging flash drives into trees — it’s kinda fun but stupid. There needs to be replacements for Harry’s bar, Storm’s attic room, ballet classes in Westchester, danger room sessions, erotic pool parties, Xavier’s Rolls-Royce — Krakoa needs to feel lived in. Teenage background mutants dancing around bonfires isn’t doing it for me.
    Now, see, I get this too! Krakoa doesn't feel like a home to me and, honestly, I'm struggling to see how it can be. It has a map of spaces, sure...but, they're just spaces. They don't seem to have quite the same bit of personality as these past locations all within one comparatively tiny place!

    I guess it's fair to say you feel Krakoa lacks a bit of personality? Or homeliness, perhaps? Something to make it feel truly permanent?

  11. #71
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Ha!! Ok, good point!

    So, really, the narrative feels a bit tone-deaf in that respect? You don't feel it's as complex as what you saw in the Immortal hulk?
    Its no where near the complexity of Immortal Hulk. In that series, despite Banner/Hulk basically being right on the money about how terrible the world is and how other heroes just enforce the status quo, the narrative does not let Banner himself go examined. He, and his choices and actions, have ruined people. Betty doesn't let him forget how much he caused her pain, and just because he knows the world is broken doesn't mean he knows how to fix it. Hell, there's an underlying plot about how there's a version of Banner that is the grand multiverse version of The Devil.

    And I know its early, but so much of what the mutants are doing is going unexamined or unchallenged. I have seen stories just like this before in sci-fi, manga and anime, where a group declares they are the future and humanity is doomed because of their vices and all that jazz. So far this story has more in common with the more juvenile and badly told versions.

  12. #72
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Definitely a fair point!

    Would you say you feel a bit betrayed, perhaps, by these characters? Or does the narrative feel a bit too false for this to work?
    Narrative feels too false. It could easily be one of those lame "it was all a simulation!" stories. Or just be about clones, and the 'real' characters are in suspended animation somewhere.

  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    Its no where near the complexity of Immortal Hulk. In that series, despite Banner/Hulk basically being right on the money about how terrible the world is and how other heroes just enforce the status quo, the narrative does not let Banner himself go examined. He, and his choices and actions, have ruined people. Betty doesn't let him forget how much he caused her pain, and just because he knows the world is broken doesn't mean he knows how to fix it. Hell, there's an underlying plot about how there's a version of Banner that is the grand multiverse version of The Devil.

    And I know its early, but so much of what the mutants are doing is going unexamined or unchallenged. I have seen stories just like this before in sci-fi, manga and anime, where a group declares they are the future and humanity is doomed because of their vices and all that jazz. So far this story has more in common with the more juvenile and badly told versions.
    Now that's very interesting too! You're saying the narrative might be a bit too biased? A bit too one-sided?

    I agree, I would expect a bit more depth in that regard, especially during the set-up phase. I mean, is that not the most pivotal?

    Is it possible this comes from the execution, though, or is an unfortunate product of the writer's style? Do you feel that's hindered the concept in that respect?

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Now, see, I get this too! Krakoa doesn't feel like a home to me and, honestly, I'm struggling to see how it can be. It has a map of spaces, sure...but, they're just spaces. They don't seem to have quite the same bit of personality as these past locations all within one comparatively tiny place!

    I guess it's fair to say you feel Krakoa lacks a bit of personality? Or homeliness, perhaps? Something to make it feel truly permanent?
    Except for the quiet council chamber, I can’t picture Krakoa in my mind. Since it’s missing real world locations and cultural touchstones the books need to open up and really show us House of M, Arbor Magna, The Grove, Arena, Carousel etc. and make them special and feature them regularly so Krakoa becomes a place that x-fans want to visit like Xavier’s mansion.

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    Except for the quiet council chamber, I can’t picture Krakoa in my mind. Since it’s missing real world locations and cultural touchstones the books need to open up and really show us House of M, Arbor Magna, The Grove, Arena, Carousel etc. and make them special and feature them regularly so Krakoa becomes that x-fans want to visit like Xavier’s mansion.
    Oh now, see! That's something I never realised 'till now! That's an excellent point!

    So, because of that, you feel a bit disconnected, perhaps, from the whole thing? Maybe the characters themselves? Do you think that's what might be creating some distance between readers and characters? The inability really feel where they are?

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