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  1. #586
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hulkling View Post
    No but she felt pressure for that law, that means that even if they are not forcibly impreganted, its confirmed that some women feel that they have an unfair social pressure
    And they can just say no. Besides, there are women who can’t have kids or don’t have uteruses.

  2. #587
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    exact page where its called great siphon because im basicaly the only person in this forum to bother with the magic stuff and its not described as such EVER.
    Exact page and issue please.
    sorry it was the "apex conduit", not the great siphon, but its the same. A conduit to take the power and poisson the land of otherworld with krakoan flowers.

  3. #588
    Incredible Member Ferro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hulkling View Post
    sorry it was the "apex conduit", not the great siphon, but its the same. A conduit to take the power and poisson the land of otherworld with krakoan flowers.
    the power that rogue took, wich by issue one if you were reading it properly, says mutant magic is a new power born from the clash of normal magic and a krakoan gate, hence a new POWER BORN FROM IT, there was nothing to be drained from outworld because the magic comes from the place in betwen, the dream place.
    an conduit focuses power doesnt drain it and it was used for the creation of the gate that happened from outworld to krakoa, not the other way around.
    reread it again please

  4. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    And they can just say no. Besides, there are women who can’t have kids or don’t have uteruses.
    Even if a woman doesn't have a uterus or can't get pregnant, just having to face the responsibility of having kids is bad enough.

    And we're still in Krakoa's early stages. Things are still going good. Given the wording of the law and the fact that several high-ranking council members are known misogynists, if things get bad, I do expect more pressure on women to have babies.

    I mean, let's be honest here, Moira needs more people for her plan and she honestly doesn't seem to like her fellow women all that much

  5. #590
    Astonishing Member Jbenito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    the power that rogue took, wich by issue one if you were reading it properly, says mutant magic is a new power born from the clash of normal magic and a krakoan gate, hence a new POWER BORN FROM IT, there was nothing drained because that power is new and formed from the gate, not by draining, the apex conduit is rogue serving as a focus for the ritual, re read it again.
    Kinda like how red and blue make purple.
    Boop! Krakoa forever!

  6. #591
    Incredible Member Ferro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    Even if a woman doesn't have a uterus or can't get pregnant, just having to face the responsibility of having kids is bad enough.

    And we're still in Krakoa's early stages. Things are still going good. Given the wording of the law and the fact that several high-ranking council members are known misogynists, if things get bad, I do expect more pressure on women to have babies.

    I mean, let's be honest here, Moira needs more people for her plan and she honestly doesn't seem to like her fellow women all that much
    the kill no man rule was already contested when it was needed, the "make more mutants" is also to help orphans and young mutants witout parents, wich will always come since humans stink

  7. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    the kill no man rule was already contested when it was needed, the "make more mutants" is also to help orphans and young mutants witout parents, wich will always come since humans stink
    Don't you think those rules are a bit different, though?

  8. #593
    Incredible Member Ferro's Avatar
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    i know it was already an ambigious law in the first place that have been clarified to not be as extreme and i gave you an example of a rule being changed hence creating a precedent. the only negative reaction towards it so far came from rogue, and its heavly attached to her as a person, there was no official govermental black mailing that had her scared, just remy's reaction.
    now this doesnt mean the rule is to that extreme, there is this anoying tendency of twisting any development into a villainous territory , even when twisting what is on the page to fit that narrative and it anoys me

  9. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    the power that rogue took, wich by issue one if you were reading it properly, says mutant magic is a new power born from the clash of normal magic and a krakoan gate, hence a new POWER BORN FROM IT, there was nothing to be drained from outworld because the magic comes from the place in betwen, the dream place.
    an conduit focuses power doesnt drain it and it was used for the creation of the gate that happened from outworld to krakoa, not the other way around.
    reread it again please
    That’s not what conduit means, but I haven’t studied the magic pages enough to say more than that.

  10. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    i know it was already an ambigious law in the first place that have been clarified to not be as extreme and i gave you an example of a rule being changed hence creating a precedent. the only negative reaction towards it so far came from rogue, and its heavly attached to her as a person, there was no official govermental black mailing that had her scared, just remy's reaction.
    now this doesnt mean the rule is to that extreme, there is this anoying tendency of twisting any development into a villainous territory , even when twisting what is on the page to fit that narrative and it anoys me
    Again, it's still too early to tell, but I do think it's worth keeping in mind that a writer did sort of express this pressure and the rule itself is, well, worded the way it is.

    And it doesn't help that, again, while the Silent Council has a heavy female presence, Apocalypse is a man who had a child with a teenage girl and other male members also don't have the best history when it comes to respecting women. And you have Moira.

    So I think just brushing it off ignoring the larger picture.

  11. #596
    Incredible Member Ferro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyajenkins View Post
    That’s not what conduit means, but I haven’t studied the magic pages enough to say more than that.
    sorry , but i meant to say the ritual was using the power rogue took from the gate, wich we know it's a new power, with her as the focus.

  12. #597
    Militantly Indifferent Kisinith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    Even if a woman doesn't have a uterus or can't get pregnant, just having to face the responsibility of having kids is bad enough.

    And we're still in Krakoa's early stages. Things are still going good. Given the wording of the law and the fact that several high-ranking council members are known misogynists, if things get bad, I do expect more pressure on women to have babies.

    I mean, let's be honest here, Moira needs more people for her plan and she honestly doesn't seem to like her fellow women all that much
    Really we're back to this... The writer has expressly stated that this isn't the case. "Make more mutants" was a thematic rebuttal to "No more mutants". This wasn't society telling Rogue (or anyone else) she had to have babies. The latest Excalibur showed a relatively newly married woman making a personal choice and concerned with how her husband might take it. In fact the only person she was concerned about was her husband. That she was never concerned with approval or disapproval from anyone else is itself a condemnation of the argument that society is gonna force anything on her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hickman
    "Well, obviously, ‘Make More Mutants’ is a play on ‘No More Mutants’ so any confusion about this comes from me loving the poetry of how the three laws sound when you read them together instead of them being the actual codified laws with restrictions and provisions and what not.
    Saying that, even a strict reading of the law doesn’t change the fact that I showed you three (four if you were watching closely) ways that mutants can reproduce, and only one of those is in the ‘traditional’ hetro manner (that’s also leaving out pretty commonplace practices like IVF and surrogacy, which seem to me to support the spirit of the law).
    Also, no, I don’t think not wanting to have kids is against the law (but I do however think that this wouldn’t be a popular sentiment in the world that we’ve built)."
    "...I do want to point out that story-wise we’re also leaning into the fact that there are going to be thousands of mutant children showing up on Krakoa in search of their mutant family. So while a spirit of adoption isn’t really what you were asking about, I do think it matters contextually as what we’re talking about here is a communal parent/child relationship and what flows from that into the next generation."
    Literally everything you've said is an assumption without evidence or is directly refuted by evidence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    Even if a woman doesn't have a uterus or can't get pregnant, just having to face the responsibility of having kids is bad enough.
    Hickman directly stated this isn't the case and Rogue gives us a direct example of a character deciding she didn't want kids. No one is being forced to have kids. Its a "communal parent/child relationship", which is to say, exactly the same kind of relationship older X-Men have been forming with younger generations since Papa Claremont introduced the New Mutants.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    And we're still in Krakoa's early stages. Things are still going good. Given the wording of the law and the fact that several high-ranking council members are known misogynists
    Who? The only one who fits that bill is Shaw and he's easily countered by Frost, Storm, Jean, Nightcrawler, and Xavier. There are assholes, killers and power mongers on the council but thats it unless you are gonna go all the way back to mustache twirling silver age Magneto, and he hasn't been that character since Papa Claremont.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    if things get bad, I do expect more pressure on women to have babies.
    You're making all kids of predictions here and based off of what? Swarmed by killer robots? Have babies! Food Shortage? Have babies! Alien invasion? Have babies! Do you not see how ridiculous that notion is. The argument itself is illogical, having babies takes the women out of action for years at a time. If things get bad they won't have the time to gestate and raise children. Furthermore, we've already been shown whats more likely in the event of things going poorly. Not forcing unwanted pregnancies but Sinister and his cloned and fast grown Chimeras. Having and raising kids is and has always been a peace time occupation. Childbirth typically goes down in times of crisis not up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    I mean, let's be honest here, Moira needs more people for her plan
    What plan? The only plan we've seen from Moira was to unify the major mutant leaders and philosophies. No other plan of hers has been given, at all. You're assuming, without evidence, that she has some Machiavellian super secret plan that calls for mass numbers of mutants... but nothing of the sort has been shown or even hinted at in the comics to date.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    and she honestly doesn't seem to like her fellow women all that much
    Where has anything been shown on how Moira feels towards women? The only thing shown is that she fears precogs and Destiny (and maybe fire). There has been nothing about how she feels towards any other mutants or groups of mutants or women or men. There is literally no reason to have any assumptions on this
    Last edited by Kisinith; 01-23-2020 at 09:11 PM.

  13. #598
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    Who does Moira surround herself with? Who does she manipulate? Men.

    While in her journals and her interaction with Destiny, there is a much deeper dislike for her. Not that I think she likes men that much. She basically thinks Apocalypse is an idiot and Magneto and Xavier sre easy to control.

    And again, we will see where Krakoa goes on this. Because again, we are in the early, easy stages. And it isn't just the theory about reproduction, but also all the other concerns many of us have expressed.

    Krakoa just seems too perfect, yet there are so many, many things just waiting to explode. It's hard to pick just one.

  14. #599

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    Are we actually complaining about narrative tension now?

    This Week's Comics: Old Guard: Force Multiplied #3, Dragon Age: Blue Wraith #2, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #103, Amazing Mary Jane #5, Marauders #8, New Mutants #7

  15. #600
    Astonishing Member Jbenito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    Krakoa just seems too perfect, yet there are so many, many things just waiting to explode. It's hard to pick just one.
    Charles knows it's not perfect.



    And distasteful is a strong word but he knows it's difficult and fragile especially in the beginning. But they created a new home and I'm looking forward to watching it continue to build.
    Boop! Krakoa forever!

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