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  1. #511
    Incredible Member Astroman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    I'm sure you noticed the angle…
    I just thought they were all at a Manowar concert... "holding their hammers high" (any old school metal fans here... Bueller? Bueller?)

    There are lots of uses of "fists in the air," and the Nazi salute... actually was NOT one of them. If their hands were open... that would be a different matter.

    Hell, back during the Iraq War, I saw anti-war protesters showing solidarity with their cause doing this "salute" while singing their anti-Bush/war songs.

  2. #512
    Astonishing Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post


    I know it's not the fasciste salute… but it's close enough to my distaste.
    Any salute can be a fascist salute so long as there’s malicious/fascist intent behind it.

  3. #513
    Militantly Indifferent Kisinith's Avatar
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    Actually a raised closed fist is an anti-fascist salute. Its an expression of unity, solidarity, and defiance usually associated with left-wing politics and oppressed groups. Its use began (in modern times) with US union protests by the IWW (industrial workers of the world). In the 1930's it was adopted by the anti-fascists in the Spanish civil war. It spread among left wing antifascists after and to today remains a symbol for many socialist parties in Europe. Back in the US it was adopted by many marginalized groups in the 60's including SNCC (Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee) and from that black power groups. It was also associated with feminists in the 60's and 70's. The raised fist salute is generally seen as a symbol of individual as well as collective defiance - as witnessed when Nelson Mandela was released from prison in 1990.

    Very recently some white power groups have tried to use it as a symbol of their resistance to white oppression but they are just a bunch of lunatics any way.
    mandella.jpg
    John_Carlos,_Tommie_Smith,_Peter_Norman_1968cr.jpg
    Last edited by Kisinith; 01-21-2020 at 03:06 PM.

  4. #514
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    Any salute can be a fascist salute so long as there’s malicious/fascist intent behind it.
    Good thing this is an oppressed community celebrating their freedom from an unjust society that killed them without any sort of justice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    Actually a raised closed fist is an anti-fascist salute. Its an expression of unity, solidarity, and defiance usually associated with left-wing politics and oppressed groups. Its use began (in modern times) with US union protests by the IWW (industrial workers of the world). In the 1930's it was adopted by the anti-fascists in the Spanish civil war. It spread among left wing antifascists after and to today remains a symbol for many socialist parties in Europe. Back in the US it was adopted by many marginalized groups in the 60's including SNCC (Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee) and from that black power groups. It was also associated with feminists in the 60's and 70's. The raised fist salute is generally seen as a symbol of individual as well as collective defiance - as witnessed when Nelson Mandela was released from prison in 1990.

    Very recently some white power groups have tried to use it as a symbol of their resistance to white oppression but they are a bunch of lunatics any way.
    Something that I’m both extremely shocked yet “disappointed not surprised” that this had to be fully explained out like this.

  5. #515
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Apropos of nothing...the spiritual Swastika was appropriated, mis-used and misrepresented by those very same nazis.
    For a bunch of Supremacists, they don't have a single original thought among themselves.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa, FOREVER!!!

  6. #516
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Oh my god the Nazi salute accuse now...

  7. #517
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    Actually a raised closed fist is an anti-fascist salute. Its an expression of unity, solidarity, and defiance usually associated with left-wing politics and oppressed groups. Its use began (in modern times) with US union protests by the IWW (industrial workers of the world). In the 1930's it was adopted by the anti-fascists in the Spanish civil war. It spread among left wing antifascists after and to today remains a symbol for many socialist parties in Europe. Back in the US it was adopted by many marginalized groups in the 60's including SNCC (Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee) and from that black power groups. It was also associated with feminists in the 60's and 70's. The raised fist salute is generally seen as a symbol of individual as well as collective defiance - as witnessed when Nelson Mandela was released from prison in 1990.
    I appreciate the historical background, really… Thanks…

    mandella.jpg
    That one, I don't remember: he is showing his palm…

    John_Carlos,_Tommie_Smith,_Peter_Norman_1968cr.jpg
    This one is very famous, the arms as I remember are kept rather straight.

    Just to say that is subjective… I don't mean anything more than that.

  8. #518
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Just to say that is subjective… I don't mean anything more than that.
    It's not subjective to compare the X-Men(or any real life minority) to nazis, it's just straight up dumb if not worse.

  9. #519
    Militantly Indifferent Kisinith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    I appreciate the historical background, really… Thanks…

    That one, I don't remember: he is showing his palm…

    This one is very famous, the arms as I remember are kept rather straight.

    Just to say that is subjective… I don't mean anything more than that.
    I didn't think you were being malicious, but it isn't really subjective at all. A clenched fist raised in the air has a specific association and its pretty much the exact opposite of fascists. It is a symbol of minority protest and solidarity. That said a lot of people don't know that and a lot of people incorrectly make the association with Nazi's.

  10. #520
    Astonishing Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    Actually a raised closed fist is an anti-fascist salute. Its an expression of unity, solidarity, and defiance usually associated with left-wing politics and oppressed groups. Its use began (in modern times) with US union protests by the IWW (industrial workers of the world). In the 1930's it was adopted by the anti-fascists in the Spanish civil war. It spread among left wing antifascists after and to today remains a symbol for many socialist parties in Europe. Back in the US it was adopted by many marginalized groups in the 60's including SNCC (Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee) and from that black power groups. It was also associated with feminists in the 60's and 70's. The raised fist salute is generally seen as a symbol of individual as well as collective defiance - as witnessed when Nelson Mandela was released from prison in 1990.

    Very recently some white power groups have tried to use it as a symbol of their resistance to white oppression but they are just a bunch of lunatics any way.
    mandella.jpg
    John_Carlos,_Tommie_Smith,_Peter_Norman_1968cr.jpg
    Lunatics all around, some probably groomed that way too. Also heard of the condemnation towards those who use the ok symbol, once again seeing comparison to WWII Nazism supremacists, even though the ok symbol had been previously used such as with old Buddha statues.

  11. #521
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    Lunatics all around, some probably groomed that way too. Also heard of the condemnation towards those who use the ok symbol, once again seeing comparison to WWII Nazism supremacists, even though the ok symbol had been previously used such as with old Buddha statues.
    The OK thing is actually a problem that shows up all over the place. It is a legit white supremacy calling card these days, when done in a certain way and in certain context.

    I hate Krakoa, but come on. Fist pumps are not supremacists, especially in context. If they start giving the Nazi salute we can start in on that. But that has not happened in any way.

  12. #522
    Incredible Member Astroman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    The OK thing is actually a problem that shows up all over the place. It is a legit white supremacy calling card these days, when done in a certain way and in certain context.

    I hate Krakoa, but come on. Fist pumps are not supremacists, especially in context. If they start giving the Nazi salute we can start in on that. But that has not happened in any way.
    The OK symbol makes me laugh. As an old metal head, we were told in the 80s during the Satanic Panic that the OK hand gesture was Satanic because if could be seen as three 6 all together. And people said the same thing, "in the right context." And real Satanists, and those of us tarred with the same brush, laughed at their projection and stupidity.

    It is as stupid now as it was then. Same crap different political leaning and different decade. Same amount of fear mongering and psychological projection. Friends of mine who are still working in Social Anthropology can't believe that people are believing that crap.

    Maybe instead of people saying that Rainbow Bright promotes Satanism (yeah, look up Phil Phillip's book "Turmoil in the Toybox" - and that's not the craziest thing the Religious Right put forth 30ish years ago) it will be that Xavier and Magneto are promoting Neo-Nazism.
    Last edited by Astroman; 01-21-2020 at 07:42 PM.

  13. #523
    Astonishing Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astroman View Post
    The OK symbol makes me laugh. As an old metal head, we were told in the 80s during the Satanic Panic that the OK hand gesture was Satanic because if could be seen as three 6 all together. And people said the same thing, "in the right context." And real Satanists, and those of us tarred with the same brush, laughed at their projection and stupidity.
    Yep, unless self-defense, arrests, or something more appropriately extreme has to be used against such destructive villains of society, then at that point, it’s really just people, whether on forums or elsewhere, venting and nothing much of anything really as far as I’ve seen. I think that I and most other sensible people outside of the internet won’t worry more than they have to at that point.

  14. #524
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    I mean, I guess I can see the fist thing as sort of a...I don't know, clearly it is meant to be the fist pump we see associated with the Black Power movement and the left.

    However, I also think it isn't wrong to see the Nazi salute, especially with how the panel is located.

    I am not saying that the Nazies aren't awful and that black and leftists groups can really compare to their evil, but I do think we're meant to see how easy it is to accidentally slip into extremism and more frightening policies. After all, Nazism started quite small and as just another far-right group made of people who just didn't know what to do with themselves after WW1. Part of the horror of WW2 is just how easy it was for Germany to become what it was.

    So, the X-Men must be very careful with how they tread.

  15. #525
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    i dislike we dont know whats the cultural scene like and if there is gater-eats to get food delivered.
    Since people's only fear is the constant threat of complete destruction, death, opression and an existance as a lab rat, im assuming with the free time and what i said before, krakoan free style theather must be WILD.
    whats the dominant music scene, what will be the nation's gril group, whats the favorite flat scan singer of the island, can the danger room tech become normalized for mutie indulgence, what kind of cute mystical creatures will become pets to mutants from arrako, can i have a winged chunky tiger???

    I NEED ANSWERS JONATHAN AND THE EX'S

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