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  1. #526
    BANNED Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post


    I know it's not the fasciste salute… but it's close enough to my distaste.
    I hate at times that people don't catch or understand all the symbolism put inside of comics. I know that people after already point out how wrong the comparison is but I have to re enforce that this thought process is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off. This is use clear imagery use in minority protesting and empowerment stuff the fist in air how they say "mutant" together is purposefully using keys from those thing mention before.

    There is a much much better comparison if you are trying to the Black Panther Party and you can throw in a solid bit of Nation of Islam to get it closer to what is happening of Krakoa you can pepper in some BLM and some Antifa in as well for a little more modern day stuff but then going down that road people is going to force people confront the ugly truths. Anyways moving on because talk about this rehash the problem in talking about this topic with people. People don't seem to understand most us of do see parts of Krakoa that are radical and I am going to just leave it there.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 01-21-2020 at 11:00 PM.

  2. #527
    Astonishing Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    I mean, I guess I can see the fist thing as sort of a...I don't know, clearly it is meant to be the fist pump we see associated with the Black Power movement and the left.

    However, I also think it isn't wrong to see the Nazi salute, especially with how the panel is located.

    I am not saying that the Nazies aren't awful and that black and leftists groups can really compare to their evil, but I do think we're meant to see how easy it is to accidentally slip into extremism and more frightening policies. After all, Nazism started quite small and as just another far-right group made of people who just didn't know what to do with themselves after WW1. Part of the horror of WW2 is just how easy it was for Germany to become what it was.

    So, the X-Men must be very careful with how they tread.
    Yep, a slingshot doesn’t need to be as powerful as a cannonball to still break a window. What Michael X of Black Power did to Gale Benson was still an atrocity after all.

  3. #528
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    The ceremony ran by Storm, the most prominent black woman in the X-Men and probably Marvel, calling on her mutant brethren to celebrate themselves is being compared to a Nazi army salute. Mutants raising up their fists in response to Storm is being compared or even considered a Nazi thing. Do y’all hear yourselves? Anyway, here’s some upright closed fists for everyone who’s so on edge over it not being fully in the air. Jesus H. Christ y’all are something else.





    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    Yep, a slingshot doesn’t need to be as powerful as a cannonball to still break a window. What Michael X of Black Power did to Gale Benson was still an atrocity after all.
    I implore you to look at what you post as well as the topics you create pertaining to X-Men and race. This isn’t a comment made with ill-intent, just asking you to examine the comments you’re constantly making on here.

  4. #529
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    It's not subjective to compare the X-Men(or any real life minority) to nazis, it's just straight up dumb if not worse.
    It is not comparing the X-men to the Nazis: it is a dislike of a panel.
    “Strength is the lot of but a few privileged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.” Goethe

  5. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    It is not comparing the X-men to the Nazis: it is a dislike of a panel.
    And using that dislike by comparing it to a nazi salute. Let's not split hairs.

  6. #531
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    I want to say that it's not that I think the X-Men are Nazis,just that it's very easy to slip into that more extreme mindset.

    And I do think Hickman is posing that as a question, just how far should the X-Men go.

  7. #532
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    I liked the X-men comics because in the past, I knew what the characters felt because they exchanged their feelings and impressions (like in a soap) so I felt included in their inner circle. I felt a kinship.
    I agree we could do with a little more introspection on the main X-men title, Hickman does this very well with Sunspot on the New Mutants title but I would like to see it a little more with Scott, Charles, Magneto and Apocalypse on the main X-men title.

    There, I feel like Hickman deliberately has put a distance between the characters and the readers. The latters could have been more included in the process and in the story but Hickman has chosen not to. Hickman didn't show to his readers how was built Krakoa, and at first, during a long period, he didn't show Xavier without his helmet. There are exchanges but there is a lot of posturing in them… (for the benefit of whom, I wonder… When I read Magneto banging on about 'the humans', he bores me to death…)So I'm not sure that your wishes for more insights about how the characters really feel will be executed: if it had been Hickman's intention, he would have done it by now, in my opinion: it is usually in an author's benefit to have his readers in a close relationship with his characters. Instead there is an air of mystery…


    Me neither I have hope at least some more insights will be given because the story calls for them imo

    I think the posturing is directly tied to them hidding Moira`s secrets and the supposed bad fate for mutantkind they are trying to avoid. I think Hickman is indeed doing a mystery story where not everything makes sense precisely because not everything has been shown inmediately, this doesn`t mean it can`t be revisited by him or by other writers like it will be done on X-Factor. So far we have the mystery of the resurrections, how genuine they are? what happens when they go wrong? , we have the mystery of the other island who`s not part of krakoa, Apocalypse relationship with Krakoa, Apocalypse`s own shift on way of thinking, the children of the vault have been teased, they may as well be the predecesors of homo novissima, what`s Moira doing now? How active is she around Krakoa? etc. I like all those mysteries and would like to know a little more of them but I think more information will come in time imo. I just definitely would like the sheer fun of seeing Charles, Magneto and Apocalypse going out together to more world meetings, I would just like to know their personal perceptions of each other before that meeting
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 01-22-2020 at 06:58 AM.
    "To the X-men then, who don´t die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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  8. #533
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Please be wary of the path this thread is heading down. Stay on topic.
    You brought back Wolverine

    The CBR Community Standards a.k.a how to get along.

  9. #534
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    I just thought fist pumps were what you do at rock concerts.

  10. #535
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Coming back to the main topic... One thing I do not like is not seeing Krakoa from the eyes of the everyday citizen in any title (yet). I think it'd add a lot more substance to the concept having some stories like the old District X stuff.

  11. #536
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    Coming back to the main topic... One thing I do not like is not seeing Krakoa from the eyes of the everyday citizen in any title (yet). I think it'd add a lot more substance to the concept having some stories like the old District X stuff.
    This new status quo is begging for an anthology book that isn’t just stories about the Quiet Council. Why is that not one of the first things that the DoX crew thought about.

  12. #537
    Mighty Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Its an underlying problem with the relaunch, and one I see a lot in comics and manga. Have a big concept or idea but don't put in the legwork to make the readers care. Seeing scenes of everyday living or how life is on Krakoa for people outside the main X members would go a long way to making the reader care and get emotionally invested in what's going on.

    Having Krakoa be treated as a mystery box that's constantly unfolding undercuts being able to see it as a beacon of hope for these guys. Starting it off with the creepy, sinister scene of Xavier with the pod people meant that the first impression people had was that something was seriously wrong. Which in turn means that the story has to do extra work to get people invested as a good thing, as they now have to clarify that no, its not sinister or creepy, but a good thing. And its good because (X), and is making everyone's lives better. YMMV on whether it has succeeded on either front yet. Having people constantly just say they are happy with only small scenes showing them happy isn't enough for me.

  13. #538
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    I understand redemption , I understand the desire for redemption and I understand second chances but It's just not realistic to actually let Emplate , Selene , Fabian Cortez etc on a secluded island filled with mutants , It just makes no sense because they've proven time and time again their selfish and self-hating towards other mutants and beyond redemption.

  14. #539
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    Quote Originally Posted by Npresh24 View Post
    I understand redemption , I understand the desire for redemption and I understand second chances but It's just not realistic to actually let Emplate , Selene , Fabian Cortez etc on a secluded island filled with mutants , It just makes no sense because they've proven time and time again their selfish and self-hating towards other mutants and beyond redemption.
    there is jamie too, that is a slave human trader.

    that is really dissapointing

  15. #540
    Cosmic Sandwich Metal Sphere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    there is jamie too, that is a slave human trader.

    that is really dissapointing
    Has that been retconned? Because what Apocalypse & Jamie do over in Excalibur really soured me on any character that even remotely tolerates either. This unity at any costs is basically free reign for them. For every Black Tom or Gorgon who seem to be truly believers and grabbing onto this chance at redemption, we have more of the unapologetic monsters not giving a damn.

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