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  1. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Handsome men don't lose fights View Post
    Personally, I think the real enemy is whoever infected the world community with the idea that for mutants to thrive, humans had to go extinct. It's such an obvious lie to turn them against each other, and it's working like gangbusters.
    Ah, yes, I definitely understand that! You feel that it's not fair that, for one group to thrive another has to be torn down? At least, on a personal level? What about institutionally?

  2. #47
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handsome men don't lose fights View Post
    Well, going back to the Sabertooth thing: Even the humans gave him a lawyer. He didn't even have that at his sentencing on Krakoa. If the council decides your guilty, you're guilty. Because "mutant justice is perfect." But what's just about having no representation? People've died fighting in wars for the right to be heard by Society, but Charles Xavier with his staggering 50 years of living has decided that this isn't necessary. No. Get lawyers. Draft a charter of rights. Let the people be heard.
    Charles Xavier is almost white privilege incarnate, only losing when Emma Frost is in the same room as him. His experience as a mutant is so far removed from what most mutants experience that it completely skews his judgments and leadership ability. If you are telling a story about minority rights and representation, he should be kept far away.

    As for why I hate Krakoa specifically, I hate the island because its ascetically gross. I hate that it came out of nowhere with no buildup and is now The Most Important Thing to every mutant character, including the ones who used to have internal lives and aspirations. I hate that its an island version of that stupid planet Pandora from James Cameron's Avatar, being a 'perfect' utopia for its chosen few, providing for all the needs of the people it accepts (and technically leeches off of). I hate how its creeping into the rest of the Marvel Universe, and how off it feels just being in the same world as my favorite books like Ms. Marvel and Miles Morales. I hate how its derailed the X-men into acting like the kind of characters they used to oppose. Cyclops once even lectured the others that they can't go around acting like 'the Master race with our Master Plan'. And lastly, I hate that its a cynical attempt at optimism. The X-men have never been happier (which we're told, not shown), and all they had to do was give up and declare their mission a lost cause. Co-existence is impossible, the only way is dominance, either violent or culturally.

  3. #48
    Astonishing Member Vegan Daddy's Avatar
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    Because I can’t get in

  4. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Ah, yes, I definitely understand that! You feel that it's not fair that, for one group to thrive another has to be torn down? At least, on a personal level? What about institutionally?
    Institutionally, the mutants come across as the worst stereotypes of millenials. "You failed, but we'll fix it for you!"

    Probably after the next rave.
    The woman in the shadows with the elegant sigh. What could a common man do to catch her eye?
    Her easy manner shames me, oh I hate myself so much! I tremble and I'm breathless and I'm begging for her touch.
    She sees my anguished urges but continues smirking by, If I dare to follow her, it's likely that I'll die.
    But even as she's feeding, as my body's torn apart, Will she think upon me kindly?
    When she slowly eats my heart?

  5. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    Charles Xavier is almost white privilege incarnate, only losing when Emma Frost is in the same room as him. His experience as a mutant is so far removed from what most mutants experience that it completely skews his judgments and leadership ability. If you are telling a story about minority rights and representation, he should be kept far away.

    As for why I hate Krakoa specifically, I hate the island because its ascetically gross. I hate that it came out of nowhere with no buildup and is now The Most Important Thing to every mutant character, including the ones who used to have internal lives and aspirations. I hate that its an island version of that stupid planet Pandora from James Cameron's Avatar, being a 'perfect' utopia for its chosen few, providing for all the needs of the people it accepts (and technically leeches off of). I hate how its creeping into the rest of the Marvel Universe, and how off it feels just being in the same world as my favorite books like Ms. Marvel and Miles Morales. I hate how its derailed the X-men into acting like the kind of characters they used to oppose. Cyclops once even lectured the others that they can't go around acting like 'the Master race with our Master Plan'. And lastly, I hate that its a cynical attempt at optimism. The X-men have never been happier (which we're told, not shown), and all they had to do was give up and declare their mission a lost cause. Co-existence is impossible, the only way is dominance, either violent or culturally.
    Now I definitely see what you're saying on your first point: You feel that Charles comes across as hypocritical, considering his position? And the privilege that allowed him to get there? You're right, before 'coming out' as a mutant he certainly had all the advantages that anyone could ever ask for! Do you think that was true when he was paralysed, if I might ask? (because I'm genuinely curious!)

    And I definitely get what you mean, so if I might ask (so that we can communicate it to other users together!)

    What frustrates you about all mutants going to Krakoa at once? Does it feel unjustified in narrative? Does it feel limiting? Does it feel like it's taking characters away from other franchises or somehow preventing them from truly interacting?

    And, certainly, there's some characters hypocrisies to be addressed! What bothers you about that specifically?

    And, of course, I feel your last point is the most important: a cynical attempt at optimism. Why does it make you feel that way? What makes you feel that the mission has been abandoned? Is it because it's too close to Magneto's way, or...?

  6. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Handsome men don't lose fights View Post
    Institutionally, the mutants come across as the worst stereotypes of millenials. "You failed, but we'll fix it for you!"

    Probably after the next rave.
    That's actually an interesting point right there! I never actually thought about that! So, you'd say that perhaps mutants are...maybe coming across as knowing better without necessarily having proven it, or...?

  7. #52
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    I love mutants having a homeland personally, and after everything they've been through, its deserved. Its a far more interesting base of operations than the school. Visually its stunning, and I think the fact that its actually alive is interesting. So much can be going on at one time, but it still overlaps and touches base with other titles. I think its a wonderful evolution for Mutants.

    The Resurrection Protocols gives writers the opportunity to reintroduce characters that were killed off, but had a lot of potential. Death had been irrelevant for quite some time, and now there is a valid reason behind it not applying to Mutants anymore.

  8. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    I love mutants having a homeland personally, and after everything they've been through, its deserved. Its a far more interesting base of operations than the school. Visually its stunning, and I think the fact that its actually alive is interesting. So much can be going on at one time, but it still overlaps and touches base with other titles. I think its a wonderful evolution for Mutants.

    The Resurrection Protocols gives writers the opportunity to reintroduce characters that were killed off, but had a lot of potential. Death had been irrelevant for quite some time, and now there is a valid reason behind it not applying to Mutants anymore.
    Ok, all good points! So:

    What makes this more interesting for you than the school? How is it so different apart from it obviously being an island? Is it the nation building, or...? Also, how do you feel that this evolves the mutants narrative?

  9. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    It is not important (to me). It is just a refreshing change after more than a decade of being underdogs.
    Misery gets boring after a while.
    But do you think them not being underdogs anymore takes away a certain level of relatability, if I might ask? Because, on some level, weren't they always underdogs even before the extinction decade?

  10. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    That's actually an interesting point right there! I never actually thought about that! So, you'd say that perhaps mutants are...maybe coming across as knowing better without necessarily having proven it, or...?
    Definitely without having proven it. Forgivable because they're currently under attack, but once that's sorted, they'll have a lot of metaphorical checks to cash.
    The woman in the shadows with the elegant sigh. What could a common man do to catch her eye?
    Her easy manner shames me, oh I hate myself so much! I tremble and I'm breathless and I'm begging for her touch.
    She sees my anguished urges but continues smirking by, If I dare to follow her, it's likely that I'll die.
    But even as she's feeding, as my body's torn apart, Will she think upon me kindly?
    When she slowly eats my heart?

  11. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Handsome men don't lose fights View Post
    Definitely without having proven it. Forgivable because they're currently under attack, but once that's sorted, they'll have a lot of metaphorical checks to cash.
    Ah I totally get you.

    So what could mutants do to have proven it? Or is it one of those cases where the narrative might have benefited from a proper transition between this and its' last run?

    And do you think this is somehow intentional? A pride before downfall sort of thing? Or is it just short-sightedness on the writer's part?

  12. #57
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    That was more of a rant, but I'll try to cool it.

    It was better when he was paralyzed, but still present, and still super problematic.

    Yes, it feels unjustified. A lot of mutants had lives of their own. Shatterstar managed an apartment complex for interdimensional refugees. Laura was working with the Orphans of X to hunt people who had used her. All of those stories don't feel like they can be done in this status quo. Krakoa is everything to everyone, with no build up, discussion or justification. With the stances mutants have taken, and the company they are keeping, its hard to see them having a pleasant interaction with any other superheroes. Storm and Black Panther are still talking, but I don't trust Hickman when its his turn to write something like the Avengers interact with Krakoa. I'm dreading the F4/X-men thing.

    There are too many hypocrisies to count. I could just gesture in the general direction of Magneto, Emma, Apocalypse and Sinister.

  13. #58

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    Also, here's a question for everyone:

    Does the drastic change bother any of you?

    And I'd like to remind everyone that this is a judgement-free thread! It's perfectly fine if that's so; in fact, we should all talk about it and see why!

  14. #59
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handsome men don't lose fights View Post
    Definitely without having proven it. Forgivable because they're currently under attack, but once that's sorted, they'll have a lot of metaphorical checks to cash.
    I posted a page from Immortal Hulk in another topic, where after Banner went on a rant about how he's going to fix the world by breaking the right things, Amadeus Cho tells him that he's 'a middle age white man ranting about revolution, and that almost never ends well'. That is the kind of self-awareness and analysis that I am not seeing in the current run. Its mostly been a bunch of the mutant elite certain of their superiority despite getting their faces shoved in over and over again

  15. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    That was more of a rant, but I'll try to cool it.

    It was better when he was paralyzed, but still present, and still super problematic.

    Yes, it feels unjustified. A lot of mutants had lives of their own. Shatterstar managed an apartment complex for interdimensional refugees. Laura was working with the Orphans of X to hunt people who had used her. All of those stories don't feel like they can be done in this status quo. Krakoa is everything to everyone, with no build up, discussion or justification. With the stances mutants have taken, and the company they are keeping, its hard to see them having a pleasant interaction with any other superheroes. Storm and Black Panther are still talking, but I don't trust Hickman when its his turn to write something like the Avengers interact with Krakoa. I'm dreading the F4/X-men thing.

    There are too many hypocrisies to count. I could just gesture in the general direction of Magneto, Emma, Apocalypse and Sinister.
    Oh no, please, that's ok! This is a judgement-free thread! Ranting is healthy here! If it makes you feel better then it's fine, I promise!

    Ah, so you feel that perhaps, Krakoa is working as an interruption for these mutants lives? And, perhaps, that you haven't seen why they have cause to want to go to Krakoa at all? That the narrative hasn't done enough to justify just why all mutants should have participated right away in the mass-migration?

    You also feel that, perhaps, the overall narrative is a little over-simplified? You, like me, struggle to see just why normal, friendly interactions should go on based on the impression that Hickman has given thus far in his narrative?

    Also, please, this really is a safe thread: What about those characters' hypocrisies bother you and why?

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