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  1. #76
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    I so far have really liked the Krakoa concept. Personally I think it is something new compared to the last few status quo's of the X-books which mostly amounted to fighting off extinction sometimes due to the inaction of the entire marvel universe (IvX). I don't have a problem at all with the way the mutants are acting, they are providing world altering medicine for the low price of acceptance as beings with rights. I also don't have a problem with them accepting people like Apocalypse and Sinister. With them on the island and happy they aren't out in the general population killing and maiming other people, they have basically become refugee's in Krakoa that actually have a voice. I also don't have any issue with them being on the quiet council because it gives the angels on the island the opportunity to closely monitor the demons.

    I am willing to admit that the new status quo could benefit from a bit more backstory but I don't think it is necessary for the story to be told and enjoyed. Would I like to know how Prof X came back? Sure I would. Would I like to see the first conversation he and Cyclops had? Absolutely. Do I need to see this to enjoy the story in front of me? Not at all.
    You brought back Wolverine

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  2. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    Narrative feels too false. It could easily be one of those lame "it was all a simulation!" stories. Or just be about clones, and the 'real' characters are in suspended animation somewhere.
    Now that's a really fair point! There's nothing really there, you feel, to guarantee that it's permanent?

  3. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    With Krakoa, I feel that a lot more characters can be involved than the school. The Island is large enough to house everyone, but allow them to do what suits their character.

    For decades we've seen the X-Men in particular fighting for coexistence to no avail. These past few years in particular have been rough, so I think its logical for them to try a different approach. Putting themselves first, and trying to restore those they've lost, and attempt to act as a united front, as opposed to fighting one another, is different that what we are used to seeing. I think it makes sense seeing as how all this division before Krakoa had gotten them no where.
    I like that we can see mutants having down time on the island and knowing that their base isn't going to get blown up every two minutes. One attack force managed to get onto the island, and now they upped their defences considerably.

    I like that mutants are trying to proactively save mutants world wide and proactively fighting against the forces of genocide that want to kill mutant kind. I would love one thing though, just like on Utopia, I would love for some other refugees to ask Krakoa for help and see what happens. It would be interesting if Emma stepped in and did the same as last time and advocated that the refugees should be allowed to join Krakoa if they wish to. I would like for that to be a conversation that they have at a council meeting about whether they should be trying to save other people who are fleeing from the same places where they rescue mutants. Perhaps in Russia some gay kids were travelling with the mutants in the hope of escaping persecution and being allowed to go to Krakoa. Or in Brazil some of the Indigenous population is trying to flee the Brazilian government and joined up with the mutants and tried to stay with them to seek asylum on Krakoa.

    It would also be interesting if these human refugees realized how different the culture is on Krakoa, lol, some of them might actually get frightened and want to leave.

    I think that's my only criticism, I would like to see the mutants realizing that it might be to their advantage to have human allies who want to stand with them on the island. But other than that, I love this new direction, I love that the mutants have their own homeland where they can feel safe from global persecution.
    We are MUTANT..Krakoa, FOREVER!!! “Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité”

  4. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    I so far have really liked the Krakoa concept. Personally I think it is something new compared to the last few status quo's of the X-books which mostly amounted to fighting off extinction sometimes due to the inaction of the entire marvel universe (IvX). I don't have a problem at all with the way the mutants are acting, they are providing world altering medicine for the low price of acceptance as beings with rights. I also don't have a problem with them accepting people like Apocalypse and Sinister. With them on the island and happy they aren't out in the general population killing and maiming other people, they have basically become refugee's in Krakoa that actually have a voice. I also don't have any issue with them being on the quiet council because it gives the angels on the island the opportunity to closely monitor the demons.

    I am willing to admit that the new status quo could benefit from a bit more backstory but I don't think it is necessary for the story to be told and enjoyed. Would I like to know how Prof X came back? Sure I would. Would I like to see the first conversation he and Cyclops had? Absolutely. Do I need to see this to enjoy the story in front of me? Not at all.
    So you don't think this feels a bit too impersonal an approach? You're confident that they can buy love and acceptance in this matter, genuinely speaking, not just politically?

    Also, may I ask why you feel this? Because, see, this is something I really struggle with and I'm sure other readers do too: because of such missing information I find it very hard to truly trust these characters, especially Prof, Magneto and Moira.

  5. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    I like that we can see mutants having down time on the island and knowing that their base isn't going to get blown up every two minutes. One attack force managed to get onto the island, and now they upped their defences considerably.

    I like that mutants are trying to proactively save mutants world wide and proactively fighting against the forces of genocide that want to kill mutant kind. I would love one thing though, just like on Utopia, I would love for some other refugees to ask Krakoa for help and see what happens. It would be interesting if Emma stepped in and did the same as last time and advocated that the refugees should be allowed to join Krakoa if they wish to. I would like for that to be a conversation that they have at a council meeting about whether they should be trying to save other people who are fleeing from the same places where they rescue mutants. Perhaps in Russia some gay kids were travelling with the mutants in the hope of escaping persecution and being allowed to go to Krakoa. Or in Brazil some of the Indigenous population is trying to flee the Brazilian government and joined up with the mutants and tried to stay with them to seek asylum on Krakoa.

    It would also be interesting if these human refugees realized how different the culture is on Krakoa, lol, some of them might actually get frightened and want to leave.

    I think that's my only criticism, I would like to see the mutants realizing that it might be to their advantage to have human allies who want to stand with them on the island. But other than that, I love this new direction, I love that the mutants have their own homeland where they can feel safe from global persecution.
    I actually asked that question on my 'What if' thread!! It's a speculation thread; feel free to drop by sometime and we can chat about it!! And you're right, we definitely need to see that! In fact, I argue that might be one of the most important things to ask right now; because Krakoa is so insular and 'exclusive', so to speak, what does that mean for other refugees who might be denied asylum literally everywhere else? What happens then? How would you feel, then, if they only offered asylum to the mutants in those ranks?

    And that last point is very interesting to hear from you, if you don't mind me saying? Do you think they've acted in a manner to, perhaps, push those allies away or somehow communicate that they're not needed/wanted anymore?

  6. #81
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    Except for the quiet council chamber, I can’t picture Krakoa in my mind. Since it’s missing real world locations and cultural touchstones the books need to open up and really show us House of M, Arbor Magna, The Grove, Arena, Carousel etc. and make them special and feature them regularly so Krakoa becomes a place that x-fans want to visit like Xavier’s mansion.
    That a good point. We get a lot of long-distance shots of weird structures, but a lot of them don't look like actual buildings. Like I have trouble picturing Krakoa as like a place people live in. Just kind of a slightly decorated space jungle.

  7. #82
    Incredible Member Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Now this is an extremely varied view!! Please, can I ask you what makes you feel this way? I'd love a bit more insight!
    I don't mind a dark tone, but I found the lack of aspiration and heroism and the overbearing emphasis on nationalism and collectivism and defense annoying.

    If the whole series is just about people just trying to make it and barely holding on, there are and were franchises doing it better without wasting what the X-Men is supposed to be about: people trying to overcome and be a light in the world in spite of the darkness, instead of succumbing to it. It was edgy hopelessness that wasn't written for me.

    The difference in the potential of Krakoa is that it is a nation, not unlike the Utopia era, but it's not about the X-Men being huddled together scared and darkened by "fighting to survive". The tone and intent seem a bit different from the first crack at the mutant nation theme, at least so far.
    Last edited by Kitty&Piotr<3; 01-09-2020 at 07:20 PM.
    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
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  8. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    With Krakoa, I feel that a lot more characters can be involved than the school. The Island is large enough to house everyone, but allow them to do what suits their character.

    For decades we've seen the X-Men in particular fighting for coexistence to no avail. These past few years in particular have been rough, so I think its logical for them to try a different approach. Putting themselves first, and trying to restore those they've lost, and attempt to act as a united front, as opposed to fighting one another, is different that what we are used to seeing. I think it makes sense seeing as how all this division before Krakoa had gotten them no where.
    Ok, that's a great point!

    May I ask; what makes the characters feel more involved than the school to you? Just the parties, or the premise itself? Have you seen something specific, perhaps, and if so, why this example?

    And, just to ask: Do you feel that in this unification, perhaps comes a bit of...well...over-simplification? While I agree, those fighting for the same cause shouldn't have to be at each other's throats, do you think having them all so suddenly united means that we lose a bit of depth; how people may not disagree on how best to achieve a cause? Do you think it paints a picture of an "Us vs Them" thing at all and, if not, may I ask why?

  9. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    I don't mind a dark tone, but I found the lack of aspiration and heroism and the overbearing emphasis on nationalism and collectivism and defense annoying.

    If the whole series is just about people just make it and barely holding on, there are and were franchises doing it better without wasting what the X-Men is supposed to be about: people trying to overcome and be a light in the world in spite of the darkness, instead of succumbing to it. It was edgy hopelessness that wasn't written for me.

    The difference in the potential of Krakoa is that it is a nation, not unlike the Utopia era, but it's not about the X-Men being huddled together scared and darkened by "fighting to survive". The tone and intent seem a bit different from the first crack at the mutant nation theme, at least so far.
    I'm definitely with you on the nationalism tone: It's ringing a bit too close to Brexit for me. Honestly, I'm having such a hard time not picturing Magneto as...well not this prime-minister for my country, but a prime-minister...Nigel Farage, maybe.

    And can I ask: what about this approach makes you feel that the X-men have succumbed to darkness? (if I've understood correctly, apologies if I haven't?)

    So you'd say you're hopeful about the Krakoan concept?

  10. #85
    Astonishing Member Vegan Daddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Oh now, see! That's something I never realised 'till now! That's an excellent point!

    So, because of that, you feel a bit disconnected, perhaps, from the whole thing? Maybe the characters themselves? Do you think that's what might be creating some distance between readers and characters? The inability really feel where they are?
    I just feel disconnected from the setting, not the characters. Westchester County is an hour away from me. I’ve been to North Salem where the X-Men/New Mutants hung out in the Claremont era. There was a cozy small town twin peaks vibe that I prefer to this alien, vague Krakoa.

  11. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    I just feel disconnected from the setting, not the characters. Westchester County is an hour away from me. I’ve been to North Salem where the X-Men/New Mutants hung out in the Claremont era. There was a cozy small town twin peaks vibe that I prefer to this alien, vague Krakoa.
    Oh wow, so this has hit a pretty personal note for you? Do you feel the characters, maybe, have lost a bit of chemistry with each other because of this? Or just in general since the Krakoan era?

    Also: What's kept you from not disconnecting from the characters, do you think?

  12. #87
    Incredible Member Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    I'm definitely with you on the nationalism tone: It's ringing a bit too close to Brexit for me. Honestly, I'm having such a hard time not picturing Magneto as...well not this prime-minister for my country, but a prime-minister...Nigel Farage, maybe.

    And can I ask: what about this approach makes you feel that the X-men have succumbed to darkness? (if I've understood correctly, apologies if I haven't?)

    So you'd say you're hopeful about the Krakoan concept?
    There was just alot about trying not to die and everything revolved around that. The X-Men and being a mutant in general lacked joy. I think part of the point of Krakoa is to have that nation aspect and set mutants up as a society without the trying so hard to make things about how mutant kind is almost completely dead, "muh 198", "exploded bus full of kids", etc.

    Krakoa seems like a brighter time overall in how the characters read and what the stories have been about so far. The real beauty is that you can't go to the well of threatening to kill them all off anymore. They come back. It's awesome!
    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
    -Gail

  13. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    There was just alot about trying not to die and everything revolved around that. The X-Men and being a mutant in general lacked joy. I think part of the point of Krakoa is to have that nation aspect and set mutants up as a society without the trying so hard to make things about how mutant kind is almost completely dead, "muh 198", "exploded bus full of kids", etc.

    Krakoa seems like a brighter time overall in how the characters read and what the stories have been about so far. The real beauty is that you can't go to the well of threatening to kill them all off anymore. They come back. It's awesome!
    Now I'm sure you don't mind me saying that's a point of contention around here so I'd like to ask: why do the characters read more hopeful to you in this era, as opposed to others? Is it because they've stated that they feel safe? Or feel more confident? If so, how, in your opinion? Also, is there a way perhaps those, like myself, who might struggle to see it that way might be able to?
    Last edited by Domino_Dare-Doll; 01-09-2020 at 07:32 PM.

  14. #89
    Ultimate Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    That a good point. We get a lot of long-distance shots of weird structures, but a lot of them don't look like actual buildings. Like I have trouble picturing Krakoa as like a place people live in. Just kind of a slightly decorated space jungle.
    it is all weird, I guess sextant is the most normal. Doesn't look like a place you would spend a lo tthere

  15. #90
    Incredible Member Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Now I'm sure you don't mind me saying that's a point of contention around here so I'd like to ask: why do the characters read more hopeful to you in this era, as opposed to others? Is it because they've stated that they feel safe? Or feel more confident? If so, how, in your opinion?
    Well, if you are reading Marauders, that book is about them enjoying who they are more often than not. And even the dark books are in place because there is a happy and safe home base to keep that way. It's not a dreary uphill battle as they have already gotten over the hump and have established their existence firmly.

    I just like that there is an underlying current of hope, rather than dread.

    Of course, there is the weirdness with wanting to capture Franklin and the island is feeding on them all, and creeper evil mutants are chilling on the island, but that's all good potential story conflict that isn't just about mutant kind on the way to oblivion.
    Last edited by Kitty&Piotr<3; 01-09-2020 at 07:42 PM.
    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
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