What do you like/dislike about Krakoa? (As a concept)

[Knives]

So does that attitude extend to all humans, if I may ask? What about friends, relatives? People they might want to share those normal lives with? Do they not factor in to that, or are we to believe all bridges should be burned?

It's too early for that.

There is no trust between humans and mutants to allow this at this time. Peace is built in time with both parties making concessions and not words. At this point humans gave no reason for mutants to trust them and only accepted Krakoa due to drugs.

Going to live in Krakoa is not mandatory for mutants although some countries are trying to prevent mutants from reaching the island ( by force if necessary).

Summing up that kind of trust won't happen overnight. Not when humans create killer machines or attempt to invade krakoa to kill mutants or steal technology.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

It's more abstract-ish right now, but moments like the X-Men feeling good enough to talk about kids, their economic influence, their separation from the extinction threat, have indicated a nice setup that can allow the muties to relax a bit.

I think the forced idea that every mutant is close friends with every other mutant is supposed to signify a happier, more livable time as well, though you know I take issue with that a bit. I think as we go forward and hopefully get more time for the characters to be explored we'll get more show, rather than tell, as far as how the muties feel safe on Krakoa. Them not worrying about dying off is a huge step in that direction.

It's actually really interesting that you feel the economic influence is important; I'm actually quite indifferent to that? But then, personal taste for each reader!

But on the abstract-ish point: it's really, really hard for some readers to feel that as tangibly as you do--is there any advice you might be able to give to help us out there, seeing as we're obviously not willing to up and abandon these characters? How can we make it feel a bit more tangible for ourselves as you do?

And, hey, you know I agree with you on that bit of the narrative: it's extremely contrived and, honestly, needed a bit more build up. Even if we get flashbacks, I'm sorry Hickman, it feels like an after-thought. You told too much without the show.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

It's too early for that.

There is no trust between humans and mutants to allow this at this time. Peace is built in time with both parties making concessions and not words. At this point humans gave no reason for mutants to trust them and only accepted Krakoa due to drugs.

Going to live in Krakoa is not mandatory for mutants although some countries are trying to prevent mutants from reaching the island ( by force if necessary).

Summing up that kind of trust won't happen overnight. Not when humans create killer machines or attempt to invade krakoa to kill mutants or steal technology.

Too early politically, do you feel, or personally?

I mean, it's a bit of a broad statement; yeah, on a macro level there is no trust between humans and mutants...but the micro level is just as important. Are mutants expected to have to burn bridges with their families? Or just accept that their relatives may not be part of their lives? What of humans born on Krakoa, would you, as a reader, expect them to be expelled from the island because of political tensions?

[Knives]

Too early politically, do you feel, or personally?

I mean, it's a bit of a broad statement; yeah, on a macro level there is no trust between humans and mutants...but the micro level is just as important. Are mutants expected to have to burn bridges with their families? Or just accept that their relatives may not be part of their lives? What of humans born on Krakoa, would you, as a reader, expect them to be expelled from the island because of political tensions?

Both.

At the moment if mutants want to be with their human families then they will have to leave Krakoa and hope that one day the situation will change.

The only humans who could live in Krakoa at this time would be those the X-men fully trust or special cases like Jubilee's son.


Does anyone here think that the US would allow people considered dangerous or terrorist into their country?

It's the same with Krakoa.

As far as I know some countries do not even accept immigrants fleeing wars or poverty closing their borders or wanting to build walls.

Is it so weird that mutants want to protect their home if humans do the same thing or worse with their own species?

[Tycon]

Too early politically, do you feel, or personally?

I mean, it's a bit of a broad statement; yeah, on a macro level there is no trust between humans and mutants...but the micro level is just as important. Are mutants expected to have to burn bridges with their families? Or just accept that their relatives may not be part of their lives? What of humans born on Krakoa, would you, as a reader, expect them to be expelled from the island because of political tensions?

Nothing is stopping mutants from visiting their families. Most mutants coming to Krakoa left for the purpose of getting away from their bigoted family or government. Just like Storm can still go to Wakanda and have a stable relationship ship with Black Panther, any mutant who wants to go to their family can.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Both.

At the moment if mutants want to be with their human families then they will have to leave Krakoa and hope that one day the situation will change.

The only humans who could live in Krakoa at this time would be those the X-men fully trust or special cases like Jubilee's son.


Does anyone here think that the US would allow people considered dangerous or terrorist into their country?

It's the same with Krakoa.

As far as I know some countries do not even accept immigrants fleeing wars or poverty closing their borders or wanting to build walls.

Is it so weird that mutants want to protect their home if humans do the same thing or worse with their own species?

No, not at all; but you can't expect people not to wonder what the strict laws mean for families who're close. Take the Guthries for example; in X-Force, Paige is clearly unhappy at the idea of living in such a detached manner from her's. Besides; if Krakoa truly is a paradise, would it be so strange for those who do have good relationships with some humans to want to share it with them, too? And what if they do want their human families to come live with them? Or human lovers; these are all questions the narrative invites and that we, as readers, do worry about.

And there's the thing: these family members aren't necessarily terrorists, nor do they pose any threat to mutant kind beyond just being born human.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Nothing is stopping mutants from visiting their families. Most mutants coming to Krakoa left for the purpose of getting away from their bigoted family or government. Just like Storm can still go to Wakanda and have a stable relationship ship with Black Panther, any mutant who wants to go to their family can.

But what if a mutant feels they can't live a such a 'complete' life without their family close-by, (Which isn't unheard of, let's be honest?) but still need the safety of Krakoa? What if, as mentioned on another thread, they feel their human family is in danger from the bigots who targeted them?

[Tycon]

But what if a mutant feels they can't live a such a 'complete' life without their family close-by, (Which isn't unheard of, let's be honest?) but still need the safety of Krakoa? What if, as mentioned on another thread, they feel their human family is in danger from the bigots who targeted them?

Then.......sorry? I’m sure many other mutants wouldn’t feel safe if some random humans promised safety if they got to roam around the island just because of loved one “wanted them around.” It’s tough luck, just grow a gate near the house or something. Right now, Xavier is trying to make sure mutants are t being killed by the hundreds, not to abide by their every want. And we’ll probably see the latter question answered in the next issue of New Mutants but why would those families be targeted if there isn’t any knowledge of having mutants as family.

[Knives]

No, not at all; but you can't expect people not to wonder what the strict laws mean for families who're close. Take the Guthries for example; in X-Force, Paige is clearly unhappy at the idea of living in such a detached manner from her's. Besides; if Krakoa truly is a paradise, would it be so strange for those who do have good relationships with some humans to want to share it with them, too? And what if they do want their human families to come live with them? Or human lovers; these are all questions the narrative invites and that we, as readers, do worry about.

And there's the thing: these family members aren't necessarily terrorists, nor do they pose any threat to mutant kind beyond just being born human.

It's because you simply believe that just because there is a will then everything will be fine.

What if one of these familiar humans is an undercover agent?

And if one of those family or friend human is killed by a mutant in Krakoa for have lost a relative or friend in a attack for Sentinels or Purifiers ? And a revolt begins?

What if most mutants in krakoa don't want humans there?

What if these humans living in Krakoa start to be treated badly by the mutants?

Again, it's too early to try something so dangerous. Krakoa has not even been accepted as a nation by every country in the world and you already want to make exceptions and humans in their borders even after successive attacks and deaths on the island.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

It's actually really interesting that you feel the economic influence is important; I'm actually quite indifferent to that? But then, personal taste for each reader!

But on the abstract-ish point: it's really, really hard for some readers to feel that as tangibly as you do--is there any advice you might be able to give to help us out there, seeing as we're obviously not willing to up and abandon these characters? How can we make it feel a bit more tangible for ourselves as you do?

And, hey, you know I agree with you on that bit of the narrative: it's extremely contrived and, honestly, needed a bit more build up. Even if we get flashbacks, I'm sorry Hickman, it feels like an after-thought. You told too much without the show.

Honestly? Don't read Jon's awkward dialogue that makes everyone sound like cultists and try to remember that the major stories before this were M-Day: Magneto's Daughter Kills the X-Men, Umpteen Years of Whining And Baby-Killing Because No Mutants, Phoenix Force Cosplay War, Mutant Revolution: Whatever This Is Supposed to Mean, and M-Day 2: Killer Farts.

Seriously though, the tangibility that is there is in knowing that the M-Days are over and that the mutant stories have this expansive new world to play with in Krakoa.

I think we need more heroics on top of the X-Men doing stuff for mutant-first political purposes to really get the right X-Men feel, but I think that will come.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Then.......sorry? I’m sure many other mutants wouldn’t feel safe if some random humans promised safety if they got to roam around the island just because of loved one “wanted them around.” It’s tough luck, just grow a gate near the house or something. Right now, Xavier is trying to make sure mutants are t being killed by the hundreds, not to abide by their every want. And we’ll probably see the latter question answered in the next issue of New Mutants but why would those families be targeted if there isn’t any knowledge of having mutants as family.

Well that's an attitude that surely doesn't bode well for Shogo then? He's a random human who'll be wandering about, won't he? And he's not a threat, he's got a mutant mother. Everyone's still safe with him there. Is it not enough for other mutants then that a mutant trusts a human, especially if they do get Krakoa's permission to bring them through?

And, well, what if their mutation was obvious? What if they couldn't 'pass' as well as other mutants--people would obviously know about the family. And if they were loving, well, it's not uncommon for bigots to attack loved one's for being 'traitors' to their race. What does happen to them if they're ousted from their homes; aren't they refugees in a sense, too?

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Honestly? Don't read Jon's awkward dialogue that makes everyone sound like cultists and try to remember that the major stories before this were M-Day: Magneto's Daughter Kills the X-Men, Umpteen Years of Whining And Baby-Killing Because No Mutants, Phoenix Force Cosplay War, Mutant Revolution: Whatever This Is Supposed to Mean, and M-Day 2: Killer Farts.

Seriously though, the tangibility that is there is in knowing that the M-Days are over and that the mutant stories have this expansive new world to play with in Krakoa.

I think we need more heroics on top of the X-Men doing stuff for mutant-first political purposes to really get the right X-Men feel, but I think that will come.

Ok, so, basically just look at the pictures, hahaha??

I suppose that's easier said than done, though? To try and remember those concepts when, within them, there were individually nice moments--or even some ideas that might have been liked. (Teen o5 in my case; still miss 'em!)

You're right though; we need either more generalised heroics or just some nice, little moments between people. Not politicians, people; friends, families, ect.

[Tycon]

Well that's an attitude that surely doesn't bode well for Shogo then? He's a random human who'll be wandering about, won't he? And he's not a threat, he's got a mutant mother. Everyone's still safe with him there. Is it not enough for other mutants then that a mutant trusts a human, especially if they do get Krakoa's permission to bring them through?

And, well, what if their mutation was obvious? What if they couldn't 'pass' as well as other mutants--people would obviously know about the family. And if they were loving, well, it's not uncommon for bigots to attack loved one's for being 'traitors' to their race. What does happen to them if they're ousted from their homes; aren't they refugees in a sense, too?

Shogo is a baby.

I’m sure Krakoa can serve as a temporary refugee area for the afflicted families, but I don’t see why it would have to be permanent if the outside perpetrators are dealt with.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Shogo is a baby.

I’m sure Krakoa can serve as a temporary refugee area for the afflicted families, but I don’t see why it would have to be permanent if the outside perpetrators are dealt with.

And when he grows up to wander about among mutantkind? What do you feel should happen? Will he still be seen as a threat, somehow, to those he'll grow up around?

But you've said yourself that anti-mutant crime in the human world is hardly dealt with as it needs to be? What if they, too, don't feel safe outside back in the human world, in case those perpetrators come back? What if the mutant is somehow disabled, even, and the parents are the carers they feel comfortable with?

Where do you think they fit in to the Krakoan concept?

[pkingdom]

Honestly? Don't read Jon's awkward dialogue that makes everyone sound like cultists and try to remember that the major stories before this were M-Day: Magneto's Daughter Kills the X-Men, Umpteen Years of Whining And Baby-Killing Because No Mutants, Phoenix Force Cosplay War, Mutant Revolution: Whatever This Is Supposed to Mean, and M-Day 2: Killer Farts.

Seriously though, the tangibility that is there is in knowing that the M-Days are over and that the mutant stories have this expansive new world to play with in Krakoa.

I think we need more heroics on top of the X-Men doing stuff for mutant-first political purposes to really get the right X-Men feel, but I think that will come.

That plays into my 'cynical optimism' thinking. To me, it doesn't feel like the M-Days are over. In fact it feels like things are doubling down on that kind of story. Mutants are now so hated everywhere in the entire world they don't feel safe anywhere BUT Krakoa. Its feels like a common sentiment on this board is that mutants all basically get hatecrimed if they ever step outside of Krakoa, and that's just how terrible the world is for mutants. Nothing that Xavier is doing seems to be correcting that. We only have 1 data page restricted story making it look like people give even the slightest damn about mutants now. Almost every story running now is about humans trying to genocide the mutants. Far from putting those stories behind us, it seems like that's the only story they can tell now.