What kind of X-Men reader are you?

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

I care about the characters a great deal (I'll probably read any story Monet is a part of, for example) but I think the story is paramount. I think sometimes the way I envision my favorite characters has to be sacrificed for the better story and sometimes the best stories make me redefine who my favorite characters are.

I think that being too attached to 'head canon' or single versions of characters is very stifling and limiting not only as a reader but for the creative teams trying to appease the fanbase.

I think continuity is a gift that should be used sparingly and smart, creative liberties should be taken with the 60-year-old lore for the sake of modernity and cohesion.

Once again, I'm just as passionate a character fan as the next guy, but the world-building and atmosphere is so important to me which is why House of X really appeals to me in such a strong way. Character relationships (mostly non-romantic) are essential in creating a story I can get invested in. Fashion, creative and tasteful designs, and thoughtful hairstyles are minor details that can make or break an artist's interpretation for me.

So what is it about world-building that intrigues you? And, in regards to characters and how they act, would you say you had a certain...expectation, with which to limit or frame that? So, say, Ororo declare that she despises all of humanity in the next few issues and keep you on-board with that, or...? (Hypothetically speaking, of course! Just curious!)

[salarta]

What were you doing on the Marvel wiki if you didnt know anything about Marvel and didnt care?

Honestly, I don't remember but my best guess is for porn.

If a fic or art covers content that piques my interest, I may take a look at it even if I don't care about the franchise it's using. Fairy Tail, One Piece, Fire Emblem and Game of Thrones are a few examples, as well as Dragon Age before Inquisition came out. From there, I might actually look up some info on wikis in case it enhances what I'm looking at. Not to give explicit details, but in one case I looked up four Fire Emblem characters to better understand who they were for some art I liked (they turned out to be queens and princesses, FYI), yet I've never played a single Fire Emblem game and don't plan to start.

So yeah. I was probably there for a quick brush-up to make X and Y character doing Z more interesting. What I do remember is that I somehow wound up at Lorna's wiki page, looked up the nearest comic shop, and bought multiple books that had her on the cover.

That said, I do remember a few rare pre-Lorna things I checked out involving Marvel. Some episodes of X-Men Evolution when they were on TV, a few movies, and a few comics I didn't buy to read. That's all.

So I guess the lesson is Marvel should make porn?

So how do you feel right now about Polaris and her treatment? I mean, I can expect a bit frustrate for the fact that she's not in more, but...? And, if I may, can I ask about the process that helped you gravitate towards more characters? Was it only in the X-line or was it broader? What incentive did you have to gravitate outwards? And what's stopped you reading right now? How do you feel about that? (it's ok to vent here by the way!)

And those are some interesting thoughts regarding the impacts, I've not heard much of that so far: Would you say you trust creators/editors/executives ect.? Do you trust what's promised in interviews or do you need to see it to believe it? What observations in fandoms do you mean and how does that impact your reading? For the better or worse, or does it depend?

I'm unsurprised and complicated on feelings about Lorna's treatment. If we're talking in general over the past half decade, frustrated. If we're talking HoX/PoX/DoX, I actually prefer Marvel not using her right now. Anything I say on this count on this board right now will just upset the people here, so I won't go further for the time being.

My incentive to go outward was to explore Lorna's place within this vast universe full of things I knew nothing about. Except I don't really have that incentive anymore, because why care when Marvel's decided to pretend Lorna's done nothing in the past 50 years besides bang Havok? When Marvel can so easily act like surviving Genosha and dealing with massive PTSD from it never happened, what's the point of engaging with anything Marvel puts out? Maybe next time Marvel has her bang Havok she'll forget her own name (and I'm only half joking when I say that).

I don't trust editors and executives. All of my observations with them to date have been them lying and making excuses to justify themselves instead of actually caring, and using their power for personal vendettas. And that applies all over, not only at Marvel.

With Marvel, it's been excuses for why Lorna shouldn't be Magneto's daughter, leaving her out of the family in events, claiming she doesn't have enough fan interest to support her. And that's just the Lorna-specific things; not including things like their behavior toward X-Men and Fantastic Four pre-Fox-buyout. But outside Marvel, I've seen Konami take Kojima's name off MGS5 and take P.T. off PSN because of a little spat with him. Saw Capcom offer Inafune tons of Megaman projects as enticement for him to stay, then cancel them all when he left (including Capcom pitching the idea of a paid demo for Megaman Legends 3 to "prove fan interest," then canceling the project "due to lack of fan interest" after backlash). I saw Ubisoft screw over Patrice Desilets by buying THQ and putting his game 1666 in development hell for years purely cause canceling would've reverted the rights back to him.

I half-trust creators. I think many want to do good things, but they're compromised by the editors and execs. Who's gonna tell an editor they're wrong when getting another gig is on the line?

That's all I can think to say at the moment. This is long, so posting what I have before reading more posts.

[salarta]

I just realized cutting the last sentence also cut another question, so...

Ah, I was similar with Batgirl: stumbled in obliviously and then imprinted hard. I found I was able to use her situation at the time and even now to help me make sense of similar troubles in my own life? I was able to reason things out through the plots I was seeing there, and which I've actually continued to do with the X-Men: Laura, Logan, Gambit and Rogue to be specific--was that the same for you, or...? What about Polaris drew you in so?

Going on hazy memory, I think what drew me to Lorna was seeing all the awful Lorna endured as summarized in her wiki and how she still managed to stay involved and fighting. Then once I read some books, the playfulness exhibited in things like her Exiles vol 2 AU version and the Crystal and Luna scenes added on. And then, speaking frankly, realizing just how undervalued she is as a character dug me in much, much deeper.

One of my first experiences at the time on one of the chans was someone saying Lorna should stay in space to "keep her away from characters that matter." Probably trolling, but it's stuck with me. And I have a strong penchant for undervalued characters because 99% of the time, a character that people hate or don't respect is just a character they don't understand, or who has been depicted poorly in bad writing. Those attitudes change once you spend some time actually looking deeply at that character's POV and thinking about what they've been through.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

I'm unsurprised and complicated on feelings about Lorna's treatment. If we're talking in general over the past half decade, frustrated. If we're talking HoX/PoX/DoX, I actually prefer Marvel not using her right now. Anything I say on this count on this board right now will just upset the people here, so I won't go further for the time being.

My incentive to go outward was to explore Lorna's place within this vast universe full of things I knew nothing about. Except I don't really have that incentive anymore, because why care when Marvel's decided to pretend Lorna's done nothing in the past 50 years besides bang Havok? When Marvel can so easily act like surviving Genosha and dealing with massive PTSD from it never happened, what's the point of engaging with anything Marvel puts out? Maybe next time Marvel has her bang Havok she'll forget her own name (and I'm only half joking when I say that).

I don't trust editors and executives. All of my observations with them to date have been them lying and making excuses to justify themselves instead of actually caring, and using their power for personal vendettas. And that applies all over, not only at Marvel.

With Marvel, it's been excuses for why Lorna shouldn't be Magneto's daughter, leaving her out of the family in events, claiming she doesn't have enough fan interest to support her. And that's just the Lorna-specific things; not including things like their behavior toward X-Men and Fantastic Four pre-Fox-buyout. But outside Marvel, I've seen Konami take Kojima's name off MGS5 and take P.T. off PSN because of a little spat with him. Saw Capcom offer Inafune tons of Megaman projects as enticement for him to stay, then cancel them all when he left (including Capcom pitching the idea of a paid demo for Megaman Legends 3 to "prove fan interest," then canceling the project "due to lack of fan interest" after backlash). I saw Ubisoft screw over Patrice Desilets by buying THQ and putting his game 1666 in development hell for years purely cause canceling would've reverted the rights back to him.

I half-trust creators. I think many want to do good things, but they're compromised by the editors and execs. Who's gonna tell an editor they're wrong when getting another gig is on the line?

That's all I can think to say at the moment. This is long, so posting what I have before reading more posts.

Honestly, I think you and I might be in the same place right now; when you love a character so much, to the point where you absorb everything about them--their world, their point of view, their feelings and see it all just...cast to the wayside...it's difficult to really put any faith in the powers of be that things will get better.

By the way, I'm trying to ensure that this is a safe thread; You can speak your mind fully about any grievances, thoughts or feelings you might have in regards to the current direction and, I promise, it'll be alright. This isn't an argumentative thread, it's a place to talk and really try to see where each other are coming from.

[salarta]

By the way, I'm trying to ensure that this is a safe thread; You can speak your mind fully about any grievances, thoughts or feelings you might have in regards to the current direction and, I promise, it'll be alright. This isn't an argumentative thread, it's a place to talk and really try to see where each other are coming from.

I know, and I appreciate that, but what I'm holding back concerning HoX/PoX/DoX is some parts "that which will never be said," and other parts "it's not time." This thread being safe doesn't keep what's said in it from spilling into other threads or affecting how people behave outside this board.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

I know, and I appreciate that, but what I'm holding back concerning HoX/PoX/DoX is some parts "that which will never be said," and other parts "it's not time." This thread being safe doesn't keep what's said in it from spilling into other threads or affecting how people behave outside this board.

I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean?

[Sandmans_Raven]

Do you feel that's missing at all from the line then, recently?

Also, what did you like about HOX/POX?

Maybe a little but I can't speak to the whole line. I've only been reading Excalibur and a couple issues of New Mutants. New Mutants I've liked but it's mostly focused on Bobby from what I've read. Excalibur hasn't had a ton, imo, apart from some good scenes for Betsy and Rogue. I'm sure it's hard to get a ton of characterization in team books, but it can be done.

I enjoyed HoX and PoX for a few reasons. Mostly I really like anything that tells a story through multiple narratives and time-jumps like that. It added an air of mystery that intrigued me. Plus, it dealt with some Sci-Fi concepts I'm really interested in (everything in Year 100 and Year 1000).

[a moment closer]

And there's an amazing example of, not only your personal courage and triumph, but of how the media we consume actively aids us in our day to day lives!

So, how are you coping with not necessarily feeling those themes you mentioned in this current era? Of familial support and such, I mean? And, if well, is there any advice you can offer to some of us not doing too well without them?

It could just be me and where I'm at emotionally. I live a fairly happy life right now and I've worked through my grief. Comics and media definitely helped me explore what I was feeling at that time. I grieved heavily for almost five years, not always a sobbing mess, but my emotions were so raw. I felt everything acutely, I constantly thought about death, his death, my death. It happens when you lose a parent and realize you're next. And you have to come to terms with it. There is no right or wrong way to grieve. There is no time limit. I found accepting my grief, realizing that it wasn't a bad thing, and living with it was the only way to move forward. Remembering my father was painful for a time and after a year or so I really just wanted to stop dwelling on it. I would then feel guilty for wanting to forget about it. Eventually, like two years in, I started forcing myself to watch comedies, watch uplifting media and ignore anything dark or negative. I got rid of cable and stopped reading the news. I had my comics but I'd read more fun and silly books that never intrigued me before. I'd listen to upbeat music; especially dance and techno. I'd go for long walks, hikes, and scenic motorcycle rides. I'd purposely go to the mall, parks, the zoo, museums, whatever I could to be around strangers and casually watch people. Maybe strike up a conversation. It helped to talk to people who didn't know me so that we didn't have to focus on anything deep, especially my dad's death and how I was feeling. That helped. I made some new friends out of it which also helped. I slowly realized that the laughter became more genuine, I was becoming myself again. I still enjoyed my comics, even the darker stuff, and I didn't have to avoid it, it stopped hurting. I would occasionally realize that I'd gone days and then weeks without thinking about death and my father and it would hit me in the gut. A little guilt. But now I am grateful for the memories when they surface. They no longer hurt. I no longer feel guilt. In fact, I'm able to talk about him and everything without getting too sad. I am happy to remember now. I relish it. I've finally accepted it all. X-Men comics and comics, in general, were a big part of that. I feel I should comment on the current era of X-books. Well, I love the fact that Krakoa exists and that Xavier found a way to resurrect mutants who've died or may die. That was brilliant of Hickman to create an in-story device for older characters to arrive without everyone wondering how. I really dig the family dynamics that were created in HOX and carried into the current slate of titles. The sense of unity within the mutant community for the most part. There is a lot of lightness and love, laughter and playfulness in these times. I love it. There is this overwhelming sense of joy while reading these newest titles. Even as they tread some dark territory, there is hope that things will be better. I'm excited for the first time in a while for what comes next. Every title has this newness mixed in with the familiar that is very intoxicating. I cannot predict the story and I'm fully engaged. The ride is going to be great and I'm sure Hickman will leave the X-Men in a solid place before he leaves. Whenever that may be. I hope that was helpful, insightful, what have you. Thank you for creating this thread. I don't usually feel so compelled to write.

[salarta]

I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean?

I think some of what I could say about HoX/PoX/DoX needs to wait, and other things I could say are too risky to ever say because of what could happen if I did.

I've seen both good and bad in how comments spread online and how people react to them. Certain thoughts are better off saved for when the situation changes. Think murder trial. It's better to wait until there's more evidence and for people to see it themselves, than to go only by what someone claims they saw. Other thoughts, I don't think will ever be "safe" to say even though they have a huge impact on what I think of HoX/PoX/DoX. I'm not just talking about CBR when I say that, I mean in general. The risks are greater than "maybe someone will be mad online at me."

Things said on CBR don't stay on CBR. I've had equal parts praise and complaint on Twitter and Tumblr over some of my CBR posts to attest to that.

Sorry if that doesn't explain it any better, I tried my best.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

I think some of what I could say about HoX/PoX/DoX needs to wait, and other things I could say are too risky to ever say because of what could happen if I did.

I've seen both good and bad in how comments spread online and how people react to them. Certain thoughts are better off saved for when the situation changes. Think murder trial. It's better to wait until there's more evidence and for people to see it themselves, than to go only by what someone claims they saw. Other thoughts, I don't think will ever be "safe" to say even though they have a huge impact on what I think of HoX/PoX/DoX. I'm not just talking about CBR when I say that, I mean in general. The risks are greater than "maybe someone will be mad online at me."

Things said on CBR don't stay on CBR. I've had equal parts praise and complaint on Twitter and Tumblr over some of my CBR posts to attest to that.

Sorry if that doesn't explain it any better, I tried my best.

No, it does, I understand; but, I hope you don't mind me saying, I am a bit concerned?...Even if these opinions do 'spread'... you are entitled to voice them? Chances are, you aren't actually the only one thinking it? And, even so, nobody should be attacking you for an opinion you have that they don't agree with? If people disagree with you, that isn't a moral failing on your part?

Can I ask, and if you don't feel comfortable, you don't have to answer; what do you think might happen if you 'risk' speaking these thoughts prematurely?

[franckd]

I just read about the characters I care about. That's it.

I am the total opposite. I read a book for a story and its characters. Not for my favorites.
For exemple, I loved (think in context) Peter David's first X-Factor run. I loved it very much. And yet, none of the members were characters I cared about. I mean, I liked Rhane and Lorna, but I was not a fan. But Peter David made me love them.

Stories and writing (and art obviously) are really important for me. Even if my favorite doesn't shine, I can love a story, a run, if it's genuinely good. I loved quite passionately HoX/PoX. But neither Xavier, Magneto or Moira are characters that I am fan of. Jonathan Hickman made me love them. He made me care about the story. He made me wonder, think, and it was way more important than having my favs in it.

Same for the DoX X-Factor. I love Jean & Logan, but Benjamin Percy made me care about other characters too. Who could tell I'd enjoy Black Tom that much?? Never in the world, I would have thought I could love reading Black Tom's stories/dialogues.

If the stories, if the dialogues are bad, I couldn't care less if my favorite is in it. "Oh yeAh, mY fAv staRs in tHaT craPpy aNd bOriNg bOok. i'M sO HaPy"

[AbnormallyNormal]

I am the total opposite. I read a book for a story and its characters. Not for my favorites.
For exemple, I loved (think in context) Peter David's first X-Factor run. I loved it very much. And yet, none of the members were characters I cared about. I mean, I liked Rhane and Lorna, but I was not a fan. But Peter David made me love them.

Stories and writing (and art obviously) are really important for me. Even if my favorite doesn't shine, I can love a story, a run, if it's genuinely good. I loved quite passionately HoX/PoX. But neither Xavier, Magneto or Moira are characters that I am fan of. Jonathan Hickman made me love them. He made me care about the story. He made me wonder, think, and it was way more important than having my favs in it.

Same for the DoX X-Factor. I love Jean & Logan, but Benjamin Percy made me care about other characters too. Who could tell I'd enjoy Black Tom that much?? Never in the world, I would have thought I could love reading Black Tom's stories/dialogues.

If the stories, if the dialogues are bad, I couldn't care less if my favorite is in it. "Oh yeAh, mY fAv staRs in tHaT craPpy aNd bOriNg bOok. i'M sO HaPy"

^ Right. Plus it's a question of... what about your fave makes them your fave? How they get written or presented can ALTER those attributes right?

Maybe a character becomes liked by you precisely due to the story context they were in. In a totally different context or with altered character attributes *are they even really the same character*?

[Vishop_]

Ok, that's a fair point! How do you feel that people are ignoring those elements?

Fans are rather more obsessed with what is happening with their favorites rather than appreciating those elements which are affecting the worldbuilding around the X-Men.

And why is it important not to ignore them?

Because there are actually very few creators in Marvel or DC who could create those big worldbuilding ideas, like Hickman or Morrison. We should be at least be respectful of what they are trying to do.

[JB]

Who could tell I'd enjoy Black Tom that much?? Never in the world, I would have thought I could love reading Black Tom's stories/dialogues.

Seriously! Same. I wanted to hug him.



Now I perk up whenever he's around and I devoured his data page. The mark of good writing.

That's why I personally don't get too concerned with the initial reveal of a cast for a new book. We often hear, "why did they cast THEM when some other THEM is available". Anyone can be turned into a star fan-favorite.

[ComeOnBunny]

I only read New Mutants, Magik, Sunspot, Hellion, Surge, Rockslide, Dust, and Mercury. In the case of Magik I skipped Extraordinary X-Men, X-Men: Gold, and that one X-Men book after X-Men Gold she was in.