New Warriors Appreciation 2020

[Chris0013]

I don't think there's anything wrong with it but to me being able to take credit for the new character is ultimately a hollow accomplishment if your creation gets limited exposure or opportunities once the character is out of your hands.

Ultimately imo these newer characters aren't being given much of an opportunity to gain any type of traction because they're being constantly being replaced with new characters who quite frankly aren't as unique as some of these creators think they are.

Which is why I think they should not have created new characters for this...but dug into some existing characters and the 'new' New Warriors.

[Digifiend]

Haechi should've gotten more love when the Inhumans were getting their big push. Sun Girl would be great for a team-up with other girl geniuses like Moon Girl, Ironheart, and Nadia Pym-van Dyne (the last one, I think actually did happen in an issue of Unstoppable Wasp).

No, Sun Girl didn't appear in Unstoppable Wasp. She hasn't appeared at all since before Secret Wars.

[Snoop Dogg]

They already explained that these new characters exist to represent modern youth stuff like our skateboarding king and pals did back in the day.

[classicgmer]

They already explained that these new characters exist to represent modern youth stuff like our skateboarding king and pals did back in the day.

#1 I think Rocket Racer would probaby argue against Dwayne being the skateboard king of the Marvel U.


#2 Charactlers like Debrii, Sun Girl, Hummingbird and Haechi don't have a ton of history so why couldn't some of the themes he sees as being associated with modern youth be explored using these characters??



Also someone else would probably know better than i since i didn't read every issue but this really doesn't feel like it's too far off from what the reality tv iteration of New Warriors was....maybe it's just me though.

[Hybrid]

They already explained that these new characters exist to represent modern youth stuff like our skateboarding king and pals did back in the day.

This comment perfectly sums up the main issue with that explanation.

[Snoop Dogg]

This comment perfectly sums up the main issue with that explanation.

90's culture's main relevance today is generally ironic enjoyement and ridicule for being over the top and silly.

Also during a pandemic it's unsafe to look at Youtube comments.

[Killerbee911]

The hate towards COTA is for sure fueled by the fresh hate that arose towards the new New Warriors. COTA had been announced for a while now, we already knew what they were about, and there was no fuss back then. .

COTA had some hate but COTA wasn't disliked for being a cheese modern take, Most hate towards it is because people are fans of millions of other young mutants in the franchise they are about 4 classes of mutants (New X-men, Gen Hope, Wolverine and X-men /2nd Gen-X kids , and Bendis kids) So people are pissed at passing them over to use new characters .And also the fact they might be humans dressing up as mutants. There was no real hate towards the character concepts themselves.

[Hybrid]

I disagree.

There were already people not liking Children of the Atom for being horribly uninspired, these people being painfully generic and forgettable. Literally, the one that sticks out is black lady Gambit. That's the entire shtick, "take a white X-Man, change the race and/or sex". That kind of dislike was only fueled when the video came out, and the backstories were:

One has a TikTok.
One has an Instagram.
One is a cosplayer (aren't they all?).
One moderates the mutant subreddit.
One makes "mutant music".

There's just nothing to these characters in any way, and are defined by a sole trait that comes off as extremely lame. People are all for new characters, but that doesn't mean they'll just accept anything they put out. I think people were fine with Crescent, White Fox and Luna Snow being imported from Future Fight, because their designs were visually appealing and they actually felt legitimate. Not only are these generic and forgettable, they're just not pleasing to look at. I feel nothing when I look at them, except maybe disappointment. Is that the best the "House of Ideas" can come up with?

Going back to the trait thing, let's compare COTA to the New Mutants, with laconic descriptions:

One is a sexy Russian bad girl teleporter and a demon sorceress who rules her own dimension.
One is a Kentucky farm boy but not a hick and with jet propulsion powers.
One is a hotblooded Native American with illusion powers, and can use Norse magic.
One is a wealthy, headstrong and rash Brazilian who can absorb and use solar energy.
One is a Vietnamese lesbian with a French accent, and a telepath in her own right.
One is a Scottish woman of strong Christian faith, who can shapeshift into werewolf forms.
One is a white girl from a lost civilization in Brazil and has lava-related powers.
One is a White-American with the ability to read and speak any language, much more useful than you think.
One is a robot alien who can shapeshift and merge with different technology.

Hell, even when the New Mutants are just wearing uniforms, they still come off as more distinct and memorable looking than COTA even at a glance, who have different costumes but all look like some OC you'd see on Deviantart or Tumblr, just no personality whatsoever. And COTA is supposed to be the New New Mutants? I thought Jonathan Hickman had a higher standard than this. How could he have let this pass?

[Hybrid]

Honestly, the NuWarriors are an extremely misguided attempt to capture the modern generation. I mean, he did have a point in that the original captured the era it was in, and that he tried to make a team of heroes that represented the now... but the YouTube comment says it all. It seems like all attempts to capture the modern aesthetic often only collect the worst elements of it.

They should fire this joker, and start over. I'm not against new heroes, I'm not against heroes that capture our time, but this was all wrong. If I were in the writers seat, and had to make five New New Warriors that captured today, here's what I would've made. Basically, they represent different aspects of our culture, but are still characters first and foremost, like the original New Warriors. They also have aesthetically pleasing designs, something that doesn't look like the most ridiculous Tumblr fanfic creations ever.

Here I go:

• Recoil - An EDM producer with sound-based powers, said powers depending on what kind of electronic music song is playing. Trance increases his speed, Dubstep increases his power, House heals people around him, Chillout makes him invisible and silences his movements to enemies, Drum and Bass increases his durability, and he can shoot "music blasts" of sound at his opponent. His costume could have a "funky" futuristic vibe to it, maybe even a Deadmau5-esque helmet. Recoil represents electronic music becoming a big genre of entertainment.
• Vista - Psionic girl who is a major anime fan, and imagines various anime-like summons that are like that of a Stand (from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure), can shoot energy blasts from her palms, and summon a baseball bat that strikes with concussive force. Her costume is also like that of anime, with a hoodie that has cat ears, short skirt and thigh high socks. Her appearance is also more anime-like with her eyes and expressions, and you can even justify that with it being a psionic projection of herself. Vista represents the increasing popularity and mainstream acceptance of anime in this gen.
• Doctor Impossible - Young science hero, who's very smart, yet very raunchy. He has a lab coat, goggles, and all kinds of tech gadgets he cooked up, and flies in a personal hovership. The thing he enjoys most is testing out his inventions, and is standoffish to others but has a good heart underneath the rough surface. Doctor Impossible represents the audience that made Rick and Morty a pop culture phenomenon, and the concept is tied directly to that.
• Lancelot - Valiant warrior with an enchanted sword, and all the skill needed to use it. He's like a magical knight, born in the wrong century. I'd give him an Otherworld connection. However, despite this, he's very tech-savvy like a Gen Z individual should be. Said sword has major cutting power, can create beams, shields, and light with energy for extra strength and he can perform spells akin to "Signs". He also has a trusty steed, a magical horse he can summon at will. His costume is that of light armor, with a shoulder cape. Lancelot represents the emergence of fantasy in this era thanks to works like Game of Thrones and The Witcher.
• Gray Girl - An alien girl with gray skin, but looks like an attractive woman. She's from an isolated planet that stole internet signals from Earth for entertainment, and as such she's a major fan of Earth culture, especially science fiction. She has an enhanced physiology, and can use plasma blasts, normally in the form of beams. She acts like a serious warrior when she wants to be, but outside of that she's a very adorkable girl and a bit socially awkward in an endearing way. Gray Girl is essentially an outsider who viewed our culture from afar and is trying to be part of it, an thus represents many things from now and then.

It took me like five minutes to come up with these ideas, and I feel like they're infinitely better than the crap Kibblesmith came up with, conceptualized, drawn out, pitched and had approved of. Something tells me this would've been received very positively over what the real product was, the most hated Marvel anything... ever? Goddamn.

[Riv86672]

Honestly, the NuWarriors are an extremely misguided attempt to capture the modern generation. I mean, he did have a point in that the original captured the era it was in, and that he tried to make a team of heroes that represented the now... but the YouTube comment says it all. It seems like all attempts to capture the modern aesthetic often only collect the worst elements of it.

They should fire this joker, and start over. I'm not against new heroes, I'm not against heroes that capture our time, but this was all wrong. If I were in the writers seat, and had to make five New New Warriors that captured today, here's what I would've made. Basically, they represent different aspects of our culture, but are still characters first and foremost, like the original New Warriors. They also have aesthetically pleasing designs, something that doesn't look like the most ridiculous Tumblr fanfic creations ever.

I’d be way more interested in your characters than I am in what’s actually coming our way, that’s for.

[Digifiend]

There's just nothing to these characters in any way, and are defined by a sole trait that comes off as extremely lame. People are all for new characters, but that doesn't mean they'll just accept anything they put out. I think people were fine with Crescent, White Fox and Luna Snow being imported from Future Fight, because their designs were visually appealing and they actually felt legitimate. Not only are these generic and forgettable, they're just not pleasing to look at. I feel nothing when I look at them, except maybe disappointment. Is that the best the "House of Ideas" can come up with?

White Fox was already in the comics before she joined Future Fight - despite the fact they later did her origin in a Future Fight Firsts comic! Her real debut was in a Korean animation, Avengers: Electric Rain - her US debut was in Contest of Champions - a tie-in comic for a different game!

[JKtheMac]

Why do we have to go though this nonsensical argument every time Marvel do something new and innovative with an old title.

Get real everyone. Marvel are a business who have a simple remit. They need to publish IP and demonstrate ownership of it. In light of recent court rulings it is not good enough to use placeholder publications to maintain IP either, so they can’t just republish old stuff in collections, they have to rely upon generating new stories and new ideas. That is a good thing because the last thing anyone wants is a boring reissue of the same old stuff. (Giving DC a hard stare over Watchmen.)

So in the position of needing to keep telling new stories under old banners they have two options. Try and push old titles to new readers, or try and refresh properties with new readers in mind.

No matter how much old timers think the first option is the best it absolutely isn’t because guess what? Marvel gave that a try many times with poor results. Look at this title. There are many of us that are absolutely chilled by the idea of reviving 90s comics. I wouldn’t go anywhere near this title. For me such titles represent everything that went wrong with comics and the reason Marvel almost went bankrupt.

Now, I am fully aware there are people that grew up with these titles and love them. But, guess what. That isn’t a viable market. There are not enough people that have even the slightest interest in New Warriors as it was originally published. And I say that with respect for the fact that this is an appreciation thread. Nothing wrong with loving it.

So, given the second option is the ONLY viable option this will always mean that the new title is not necessarily perfect for long term readers. Why continually moan about the inevitable?

[Hybrid]

Why do we have to go though this nonsensical argument every time Marvel do something new and innovative with an old title.

Maybe because this isn't "new" or "innovative"? This has got to be the biggest backlash I've seen Marvel face. You can't just say, "Well, most people like it, it's just the vocal minority!" because 3k likes vs. over 110k dislikes and rising speaks for itself. Literally all the press it's gotten has been universally negative. I've not seen anyone say anything positive about this title. Everyone can agree it's horrible.

Here's some things you should know:

• Daniel Kibblesmith did not read New Warriors, even though he was at an age where it was most popular. The original 25 issue run is a classic. He said they were too cool for him, intimidating.
• His entire introduction sounds like he just skimmed over the wiki, with nothing to add of his own. Because he has nothing to add.
• He did not pitch this title himself. It was given to him. In his own words: "My editors asked if I'd be interested in doing a New Warriors tie-in that actually poses them as an authority".
• Throughout the video he had not enthusiasm. Even the COTA video had Ayala clearly happy about it. Clearly it's just work.

I mean, come on. I can't believe Marvel approved of this, how out of touch are these people? How hard can it be to make cool characters for a teenage superhero team? It's been done many times before, mainly because they sought to make good characters first and foremost, and not chase trends that are horribly, horribly misguided.

[Immortal Weapon]

Honestly, the NuWarriors are an extremely misguided attempt to capture the modern generation. I mean, he did have a point in that the original captured the era it was in, and that he tried to make a team of heroes that represented the now... but the YouTube comment says it all. It seems like all attempts to capture the modern aesthetic often only collect the worst elements of it.

They should fire this joker, and start over. I'm not against new heroes, I'm not against heroes that capture our time, but this was all wrong. If I were in the writers seat, and had to make five New New Warriors that captured today, here's what I would've made. Basically, they represent different aspects of our culture, but are still characters first and foremost, like the original New Warriors. They also have aesthetically pleasing designs, something that doesn't look like the most ridiculous Tumblr fanfic creations ever.

Here I go:

• Recoil - An EDM producer with sound-based powers, said powers depending on what kind of electronic music song is playing. Trance increases his speed, Dubstep increases his power, House heals people around him, Chillout makes him invisible and silences his movements to enemies, Drum and Bass increases his durability, and he can shoot "music blasts" of sound at his opponent. His costume could have a "funky" futuristic vibe to it, maybe even a Deadmau5-esque helmet. Recoil represents electronic music becoming a big genre of entertainment.
• Vista - Psionic girl who is a major anime fan, and imagines various anime-like summons that are like that of a Stand (from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure), can shoot energy blasts from her palms, and summon a baseball bat that strikes with concussive force. Her costume is also like that of anime, with a hoodie that has cat ears, short skirt and thigh high socks. Her appearance is also more anime-like with her eyes and expressions, and you can even justify that with it being a psionic projection of herself. Vista represents the increasing popularity and mainstream acceptance of anime in this gen.
• Doctor Impossible - Young science hero, who's very smart, yet very raunchy. He has a lab coat, goggles, and all kinds of tech gadgets he cooked up, and flies in a personal hovership. The thing he enjoys most is testing out his inventions, and is standoffish to others but has a good heart underneath the rough surface. Doctor Impossible represents the audience that made Rick and Morty a pop culture phenomenon, and the concept is tied directly to that.
• Lancelot - Valiant warrior with an enchanted sword, and all the skill needed to use it. He's like a magical knight, born in the wrong century. I'd give him an Otherworld connection. However, despite this, he's very tech-savvy like a Gen Z individual should be. Said sword has major cutting power, can create beams, shields, and light with energy for extra strength and he can perform spells akin to "Signs". He also has a trusty steed, a magical horse he can summon at will. His costume is that of light armor, with a shoulder cape. Lancelot represents the emergence of fantasy in this era thanks to works like Game of Thrones and The Witcher.
• Gray Girl - An alien girl with gray skin, but looks like an attractive woman. She's from an isolated planet that stole internet signals from Earth for entertainment, and as such she's a major fan of Earth culture, especially science fiction. She has an enhanced physiology, and can use plasma blasts, normally in the form of beams. She acts like a serious warrior when she wants to be, but outside of that she's a very adorkable girl and a bit socially awkward in an endearing way. Gray Girl is essentially an outsider who viewed our culture from afar and is trying to be part of it, an thus represents many things from now and then.

It took me like five minutes to come up with these ideas, and I feel like they're infinitely better than the crap Kibblesmith came up with, conceptualized, drawn out, pitched and had approved of. Something tells me this would've been received very positively over what the real product was, the most hated Marvel anything... ever? Goddamn.

These characters sound far more interesting than what we got. Your idea for Recoil is basically Lucio from Overwatch.

[ed2962]

This comment perfectly sums up the main issue with that explanation.

Yes, but I'm convinced that this is on purpose.