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  1. #46
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    That is exactly how I felt about the characters in The Irishman.
    Haven't seen it, not generally interested either.
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  2. #47
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Yes, I fail to see the upset. if the table were turned I won't see DC or Marvel fans arguing that Justice League or X-Men Apocalypse deserved Oscars, had JL and Apocalypse been great movies or gotten the same positive reviews as Endgame as much as they would have supported TDK, Logan or Joker.

    The harsh reality is there are only certain type of comics films that will attract Oscars, Endgame is not the type of comic film. Oscar will love the much smaller grounded drama focused films over the alien cgi driven sort of block buster.

    MCU can work a way around this problem, if they can get James Cameron to direct one of their films but he apparently dislikes MCU movies.



    I cannot break anything down because there is hardly anything to break down. Coogler under disney's order focused more on who was the right heir of Wakanda, that is the Disney formula type of story, not I think of it, its ironic that Disney stories are usually known for the Royal tales. Alladin, frozen, tangled. they have an entire line of Disney princess and Prince collection. it makes sense this was the top story arc in black panther and not the actual politics or social themes.

    The don't have any similarities to magneto and xavier because magneto and Xavier are known first for their politica/social angles, they are ]fre-enemies to friends to brothers or whatever, the magneto/xavier stuff is complicated.

    You asked me how would you have made the script stronger and I said, making the duo in the film have a complex relationship would have been better or they could have taken the Royal stuff out and focus on the social themes more. you didn't like my answer and that is fine.


    It was not nominated as I said. Avatar, Inception, Gravity, Hugo, Titanic, Gladiator, Life of Pi and the rest of any block buster movie with a big budget that got nominated for best picture also got nominated for VFX and they all won the VFX category.



    Contrary to this popular belief. Marvel comics took place in a more grounded word to DC. Stan Lee wanted to ground marvel characters more to the fantasy characters of DC. this is the reason marvel took place in real settings like new York to DC's Gotham and smallville.

    this is also the reason Marvel characters were seen as more relatable to the gods in DC. Marvel characters were meant to have more flaws and deal with every day hard issues and use stories to reflect a lot of real world problems. Marvel is indeed more grounded than DC, it is Disney that has tricked people into telling us that is not because Disney chose to dumb down marvel stories in films, dumbed down stories are usually not Oscar material.
    The movie is about Cultural identity and African Americans lack of it but somehow you cant find anything to break down in the characters. You havent had one genuine critique except that they shoulda established a relationship and had them be friends first. That demonstrates that the entire point of the movie goes way over your head. Oh well i tried


    The MCU heroes are flawed just like the comics, the only things not grounded is the world they live in. And it's far from grounded in the comics. Wolverines wears a bright yellow and blue suite and the world is colofurll and full of crazy looking shit. Thor Ragnarok was the closes was have got to Jack Kirbys art brought to life. You want everything to stay true to the source material but you cherry pick stuff and ignore the vast majority . Most the heroes are in New York and not all given they're own made up city becuase Stan Lee built Marvel on interconnectedness and crossovers.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Most found the ending of Endgame heart wrenching and earned aseell.
    Ehhhh. If we are being real, I found Endgame too bloated to be resonate on any character. In the grand scheme of the MCU, if you followed it from the beginning, I could see how you would tie all those decade long feelings about Tony Stark back and find it that way. But in that film, it was just too big and relied on too much from prior films. In the end it was time travel hijinks and then a big dumb battle ending that had a main character sacraficing themselves. It would be different it was Tony centric and it was about some sort of reckoning for him. But they just never gave it enough behind Tony occassionally mentioning his need to preserve his family. Also not for nothing, even if you take it as a two parter with Infinity Wars. Also in the context of the MCU, we already saw Tony willing to be selfless for the world in the first Avengers. As far as I'm concerned the reason he survived there and died here had more to do with the actors willingness to stay in the role than an actual narratively driven initiative.

    It's very different from Irishman where you had Frank (Deniro) and Hoffa (Pacino) fostering a friendship all film and then watching one man's hubris force the hand of another man's corrupt lifestyle into an action that would haunt him forever. Most of the film was in service to that moment. Or Marriage Story where the whole film was about the dissolving of a relationship coming into conflict with all the emotions they still felt for one another. Or Once Upon a Time in Hollywood where the entire film built up to that ending but it's harder to explain without spoiling it.

  4. #49
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    But in that film, it was just too big and relied on too much from prior films.
    I think it was understood to be a series finale, not a standalone movie. A feature, not a bug.
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  5. #50
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    Ehhhh. If we are being real, I found Endgame too bloated to be resonate on any character.
    Nah if we being real it stuck the landing. We follow popular culture enough to see what happens when things we love doesn't stick the landing. It is criticism proof in that aspect we have recently seen Game of Thrones and Star Wars endings and are audience walking away satisfied? I can name Lost, Sopranos, How I met your Mother,etc as well. It is ridiculous hard to have majority of people walk away happy with the ending with these pop culture monsters. You can sit down and over analyze after the fact and the flaws will pop up but accomplished its mission. The first time most people watch the ending(and they movie) they were happy with it. You can't talk about Irishman,Marriage Story or Once upon time ending in the same context however good they might be because they aren't carrying years of expectation of an large audience and they don't have satisfyingly close a franchise and close a movie at the same time.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 01-18-2020 at 10:41 PM.

  6. #51
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    Return of the King won a bunch of awards even though it is generally considered to be the worst of the LOTR trilogy. It was representative of the whole project and not the individual movie.

    The problem is, the LotR trilogy were all worked on by the same people, more or less. Which isn't true for the MCU. With exception to actor nominations, you can't really give an award out to the creative people involved in the project because they lean so heavily on other peoples work. Like the costumes, didn't at least some (if not most) of them appear in different movies before Infinty War/Endgame?
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  7. #52
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Nah if we being real it stuck the landing. We follow popular culture enough to see what happens when things we love doesn't stick the landing. It is criticism proof in that aspect we have recently seen Game of Thrones and Star Wars endings and are audience walking away satisfied? I can name Lost, Sopranos, How I met your Mother,etc as well. It is ridiculous hard to have majority of people walk away happy with the ending with these pop culture monsters. You can sit down and over analyze after the fact and the flaws will pop up but accomplished its mission. The first time most people watch the ending(and they movie) they were happy with it. You can't talk about Irishman,Marriage Story or Once upon time ending in the same context however good they might be because they aren't carrying years of expectation of an large audience and they don't have satisfyingly close a franchise and close a movie at the same time.
    Many MCU fans will like anything in the MCU, so saying MCU fans liked Endgame isn't really much of a high bar. Star Wars and Game of Thrones fans honestly have higher standards regarding their franchises too.
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  8. #53
    Mighty Member C_Miller's Avatar
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    I liked Endgame, but it's not award worthy. It was bloated, convoluted and about as far from a tight film that you could possibly have. And it committed the worst sin that a movie can have, IMO, it devolved into a scavenger hunt film. Most of the second act was built around finding MacGuffins, which to me is so lazy. It's so highly regarded because it generally stuck the landing for so many fans of the MCU (myself included), but so much of its good will comes from 21 previously released movies. Endgame has to do very little to create interesting and likable characters or build stakes and tension because previous films do that for it. Marriage Story, The Irishman, and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood don't have those crutches.

  9. #54
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Return of the King won a bunch of awards even though it is generally considered to be the worst of the LOTR trilogy. It was representative of the whole project and not the individual movie.
    Really? Didn't think any of them were that bad. (I mean, I got that the Oscars it got were for the whole trilogy, but I thought it was good enough that the nominations felt "deserved," if that makes any sense.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Many MCU fans will like anything in the MCU, so saying MCU fans liked Endgame isn't really much of a high bar. Star Wars and Game of Thrones fans honestly have higher standards regarding their franchises too.
    Dunno, I've seen the MCU have its ups and downs, even if the quality level has been pretty darn consistent since mid-Phase Two. I don't frankly believe anyone who says that its a flawless series (or anyone who claims that's what that fanbase believes).

    Can't speak for Game of Thrones fans, since I never watched the show or anything (although the "backlash" over the finale really did not endear me to them, given how petulant it all came across). I am a Star Wars fan and can assure you that that fandom is a wretched hive of scum and villainy. Not so much "standards" as entitlement and the willingness to whine and moan when they're not pandered to. (Look up the "Fandom Menace" sometime if you want to see what toxic fandom is.)
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  10. #55
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_Miller View Post
    I liked Endgame, but it's not award worthy. It was bloated, convoluted and about as far from a tight film that you could possibly have. And it committed the worst sin that a movie can have, IMO, it devolved into a scavenger hunt film. Most of the second act was built around finding MacGuffins, which to me is so lazy. It's so highly regarded because it generally stuck the landing for so many fans of the MCU (myself included), but so much of its good will comes from 21 previously released movies. Endgame has to do very little to create interesting and likable characters or build stakes and tension because previous films do that for it. Marriage Story, The Irishman, and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood don't have those crutches.
    VFX, Score, And A supporting oscar for RDJ are the only ones that I coulda seen happening best case scenario. Given Jamie Foxx fox was snubbed for Just Mercy and Defoe for Light House. Yea I dont think RDJ had a chance this year anyway. Too strong a year.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir;4790718[B
    ]Return of the King won a bunch of awards even though it is generally considered to be the worst of the LOTR trilogy. It was representative of the whole project and not the individual movie.[/B]

    The problem is, the LotR trilogy were all worked on by the same people, more or less. Which isn't true for the MCU. With exception to actor nominations, you can't really give an award out to the creative people involved in the project because they lean so heavily on other peoples work. Like the costumes, didn't at least some (if not most) of them appear in different movies before Infinty War/Endgame?
    Is it? I thought most people felt Return of the King was the best one.

    I still remember the bat shit crazy good word of mouth when the film opened in 03'.
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  12. #57
    Mighty Member C_Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Is it? I thought most people felt Return of the King was the best one.

    I still remember the bat shit crazy good word of mouth when the film opened in 03'.
    I don't think there's a real consensus as to the best of the three LotR movies. I think most people who like the trilogy hold all three in pretty high regard. Without a scientific poll, it always seemed to me that Fellowship was generally spoken of as the favorite. But again, I don't think there's real consensus.

  13. #58
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Yeah, I think I like the first one the best, but I think the other two might be better made, if that makes any sense.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
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  14. #59
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    True.

    Theres no consensus on the best LoTR movie. I think RoTK is fresher in my memory than the others.
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  15. #60
    Incredible Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Been seeing a lot of op-eds lately arguing that Joker didn't deserve to be nominated (some writers thinking it was a just a plan bad movie, others feeling that it wasn't a eleven Oscar film). Never saw it myself (although people I know who's opinions I respect were pretty uniform that it was a weak film, at the ver best), so I am curious how it will fair, too.

    I mean, about my only informed opinions on the Oscars this year is that I agree with the poster(s) who've said that Knives Out was snubbed by them.
    Saw Knives Out recently and itís ten times the film Joker is. I guess Joker is basking in that whole films-about-Male-violence-are-important-films trope. Joaquin is always vfm though.

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