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Thread: Mars vs Earth

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    Default Mars vs Earth

    The Mars of the original War of the Worlds novel invades modern earth. The plot gods have decided to give them immunity to earth diseases. Is that enough for them to beat modern earth, or have we simply advanced too much for them since the time of the novel?

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    That book was written pre WW1 right? Like 1898 or something?

    I know various Martian's (the later versions) have shown nuke proof shielding but I cant recall any tech or strategy from the original novel that would stop them from getting blasted by the modern military at huge distances.

    Our weapons and tech are so INCREDIBLY more potent now then they were back then.
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    Mighty Member Shai-Hulud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    That book was written pre WW1 right? Like 1898 or something?

    I know various Martian's (the later versions) have shown nuke proof shielding but I cant recall any tech or strategy from the original novel that would stop them from getting blasted by the modern military at huge distances.

    Our weapons and tech are so INCREDIBLY more potent now then they were back then.
    Let's us invade them. We'll be able to jump around like John Carter.

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    Our first advantage is that the Martians are coming to us. Modern tech would have seen the invaders coming.

    Our first line of defense is that we have a cloud of space junk revolving around Earth because of our various escapades. They move pretty fast since they are revolving with us. Not to mention, small pieces of metal can be a pain in machinery. It's why space repairs need to be done carefully.

    Again, it's a defensive war. Despite not having to worry about Earth's diseases, Earth still has varying geography that will be a pain to navigate around. It's why invading Japan and Afghanistan is so difficult. The geography will slow them down. This is especially true when it comes to the tripods which were not heavily armored in the original text.

    Modern weaponry has also advanced. It's not just the nukes. Our missiles are faster with hypersonic capabilities and machine guns. In addition, Black Smoke is nullified in the text by Martian high pressured steam jets and water, something we actually have now.

    Our diseases may not work on them, true, but we have chemical weapons we can use against them. Their bodies, once we capture one and dissect it, are made mostly of nervous tissue. We can use nerve toxins like sarin gas, assuming that works, would be really effective against them since they're nothing but nerves. Sarin doesn't work? We have other gasses to use against them: VX, Soman. Hell, kick out the Agent Orange and insecticides.

    The Red Weed and Heat Rays are a problem, true. If bacteria doesn't kill the Red Weed, then I'm sure armies would use defoliants to try to destroy it, probably use those against the Martians like Agent Orange. The Heat Rays are one of those things we must blast to smithereens before they can be used against us since they are mounted to their tripods which, per the original text, were not heavily armored.

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    Super Moderator The Watcher's Avatar
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    IIRC, in the original book the HMS Thunderchild was able to bring a tripod down with a lucky hit. The big problem they had was targeting. So today's conventional military with the targeting systems, guided missiles and other technology that will make it a lot easier to hit the important parts of a tripod should obliterate the Martian forces.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Watcher View Post
    IIRC, in the original book the HMS Thunderchild was able to bring a tripod down with a lucky hit. The big problem they had was targeting. So today's conventional military with the targeting systems, guided missiles and other technology that will make it a lot easier to hit the important parts of a tripod should obliterate the Martian forces.
    And the Thunderchild was an out-of-date ironclad. It basically traded itself to take out three fighting machines, two by ramming as I recall.

    The heat-rays are devastating, but only on LOS targets. Missiles and pinpoint accurate artillery can be used from outside LOS, and if old-school naval guns can take them out (even with a lucky hit on the fighting machine's 'visor' or whatever it struck), then modern missiles and artillery are going to wreck them something fierce. Heck, even getting troops to set up ambushes with anti-tank missiles and the like will tear them apart.

    The martians lose, and lose badly.
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    It's really telling that later adaptations had to give Martians anti-nuke force fields to pose much of a threat. The original text in the modern day doesn't particularly work since it's been well over a century.

    Considering how much our cars have advanced, I'm sure we puny civilians can take out tripods with steel cables the same way the AT-AT went down in The Empire Strikes Back

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    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    Considering how much our cars have advanced, I'm sure we puny civilians can take out tripods with steel cables the same way the AT-AT went down in The Empire Strikes Back
    ^_^

    I suspect the Heat Ray -- which is written as able to be quickly played over a large area -- would take care of cars, though. And their drivers. :P
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

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    One thing I find funny is they came here in rockets, which must have seemed like fantastical sci-fi in the 1890's, but which is now pretty old hat. If we devoted the sort of money to NASA (or *sigh* the Space Force) that we currently devote to the military, we could probably invade them right back these days via the same method.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    That book was written pre WW1 right? Like 1898 or something?

    I know various Martian's (the later versions) have shown nuke proof shielding but I cant recall any tech or strategy from the original novel that would stop them from getting blasted by the modern military at huge distances.

    Our weapons and tech are so INCREDIBLY more potent now then they were back then.
    Yes it was written from the view of the 1890s and meant to be unstoppable to 1890s science and technology. I'm not sure it was conceivable back then how fast science and technology would advance. Plus their very height makes the Martian "tanks" great targets for missiles. Had the Martians waited until the late twentieth or early 21st centuries to attack, we might assume their tech had advanced just as ours had (Tom Cruise movie) but the 1890s Martians against modern tech? No way.

    The Martians from the Tom Cruise movie version might be better as they were designed to be able to defeat modern tech. Or even the Martians from the John Carter books with their rifles that had a range of 150-200 miles (if we ignored the gravity problems they would have).
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    I've said this before - any decently space-faring civilization will be very capable of simply tethering rockets to large asteroids and pointing them at out general direction to f* us up. Granted, the martians didn't do this, but they have rockets - hence is technically feasible for them. *IF* they do so, they curbstomp and rule over the pane of glass that was once the Earth's surface.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twickster View Post
    I've said this before - any decently space-faring civilization will be very capable of simply tethering rockets to large asteroids and pointing them at out general direction to f* us up. Granted, the martians didn't do this, but they have rockets - hence is technically feasible for them. *IF* they do so, they curbstomp and rule over the pane of glass that was once the Earth's surface.
    Have you watched The Expanse? It's super good. It touches on this sort of scenario on more then one occasion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twickster View Post
    I've said this before - any decently space-faring civilization will be very capable of simply tethering rockets to large asteroids and pointing them at out general direction to f* us up. Granted, the martians didn't do this, but they have rockets - hence is technically feasible for them. *IF* they do so, they curbstomp and rule over the pane of glass that was once the Earth's surface.
    Why would anyone WANT to do that though? There's nothing you could get by glassing the surface with asteroids you couldn't get easier from just mining those asteroids. If you're invading the Earth, you want something on Earth that you can't get anywhere else. Which means "killing all life on the planet" is probably going to defeat the purpose of whatever you're invading for, and if you don't kill all life on the planet, Humans are probably going to be one of the things that survive, because we've got the technology to make really deep bunkers and what not to help us survive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    Why would anyone WANT to do that though? There's nothing you could get by glassing the surface with asteroids you couldn't get easier from just mining those asteroids. If you're invading the Earth, you want something on Earth that you can't get anywhere else. Which means "killing all life on the planet" is probably going to defeat the purpose of whatever you're invading for, and if you don't kill all life on the planet, Humans are probably going to be one of the things that survive, because we've got the technology to make really deep bunkers and what not to help us survive.
    However, if the cost of *not* doing so is losing (i.e. a net gain of 0), then ANY marginal gains would end up as a net positive. I.e. a ball of glass may not be worth much, but its certainly worth more than having *nothing at all* - whether that thing is a living planet, a ball of glass, or anything in between.

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    My problem with this is that from the sounds of things in Wells' book, they didn't USE rockets. They used...I don't know, projectiles.

    1. Scientists see 'explosions' on the surface of Mars. They don't see rockets rising off of the planet.
    2. They don't see the rockets approaching. Ever.
    3. The 'cylinders' slam down like meteors. They don't land. They end up in a huge crater.

    As BS as the physics is, I'm more inclined of thinking of the Martian 'ships' as basically big bullets. So I'm not seeing them actually being capable of travelling to the asteroid belt easily (given it's 3x the distance to the belt from Mars as it is to Earth, roughly), and I'm not sure what they could do once they arrived without any rockets.

    I don't really see them as 'space-faring'. They're more 'point our landers at a place and shoot them into that place'. They don't display ships, capacity to maneuver, anything of the like.

    But mileage, etc.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

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