View Poll Results: Did Flashpoint ruined the Flash and the Flash Family ?

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  • Yes

    43 62.32%
  • No

    21 30.43%
  • Maybe

    5 7.25%
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  1. #91
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    lame. never heard of anyone who liked that. I'm a Barry fan and I don't like it.
    Tv fans love it. I think they would prefer it to stick.

  2. #92
    Mighty Member TheSupernaut's Avatar
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    Maybe the solution would be to throw out the concept of the speed force altogether and lower the Flash family's overall speed. I just don't see why any one speedster would need to be that fast all the time. The Baron and Messner-Loebs eras of the Flash were when I had the most fun with the title.

  3. #93
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSupernaut View Post
    Maybe the solution would be to throw out the concept of the speed force altogether and lower the Flash family's overall speed. I just don't see why any one speedster would need to be that fast all the time. The Baron and Messner-Loebs eras of the Flash were when I had the most fun with the title.
    How about making it a "let's form VOLTRON" thing where each of the speedsters is lightspeed fast, but to engage the hyperluminal speeds of the Speed Force would require several speedsters to pool their speed energy to reach a minimal threshold? Perhaps at the very least, it would take the combined speed energy of Jay Garrick, Barry Allen, and Wally West to engage the Speed Force (though if you want, you could substitute Bart Allen, Irey West, Jai West, Max Mercury, Johnny Quick, Jesse Quick, or Eobard Thawne for any of them).

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  4. #94
    Unstoppable Member KC's Avatar
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    You can argue that it ruined Wally's Flash family. But I don't like most of Wally's Flash family so it does not bother me.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Nice! Now, if the "Speed Force" which rained wasn't Barry Allen (or fed by him. Or created by him) that would be ideal. But that's still the oficial canon.
    That wasn't part of the story being told. It wasn't relevant. That's continuity baggage you're bringing with you. In 1977 it was still official canon that heavenly helpmate Mopee was responsible for the Flash's powers. But the Flash comics of 1977 didn't reference it, so it didn't affect anyone's enjoyment of the stories that were being told at the time. Just as audiences enjoyed GoldenEye as an action packed secret agent story, and not the further adventures of a man who once got into a laser fight in outer space.

  6. #96
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Tv fans love it. I think they would prefer it to stick.
    Barry didn't create the Speed Force on the TV show. It just chose him.

  7. #97
    Fantastic Member docmidnite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Nice! Now, if the "Speed Force" which rained wasn't Barry Allen (or fed by him. Or created by him) that would be ideal. But that's still the oficial canon.
    Umm… no it isn’t. I don’t know if you have read The Flash lately or not but the Speed Force (which I’ve always thought was a stupid concept in the first place) now comes from the Source like the Still Force does. Not from Barry Allen.
    Last edited by docmidnite; 01-20-2020 at 07:38 PM.

  8. #98
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Barry didn't create the Speed Force on the TV show. It just chose him.
    I wouldn't know, i don't watch cw shows.the only one i watched was smallville. But, the tv fans love the concept. They know it exists.

  9. #99
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    That wasn't part of the story being told. It wasn't relevant. That's continuity baggage you're bringing with you. In 1977 it was still official canon that heavenly helpmate Mopee was responsible for the Flash's powers. But the Flash comics of 1977 didn't reference it, so it didn't affect anyone's enjoyment of the stories that were being told at the time. Just as audiences enjoyed GoldenEye as an action packed secret agent story, and not the further adventures of a man who once got into a laser fight in outer space.
    That's like saying "being born in Krypton" is not relevant for a Superman story that doesn't mention it. If something is oifficial enforced canon, than it's official enforced canon.

    Quote Originally Posted by docmidnite View Post
    Umm… no it isn’t. I don’t know if you have read The Flash lately or not but the Speed Force (which I’ve always thought was a stupid concept in the first place) now comes from the Source like the Still Force does. Not from Barry Allen.
    I've been reading, but missed some ten issues a while ago. If you're correct here, then great!

    Still, this keeps getting mentioned (again, last month's DClock), and that's why I said: it's a concept that needs to be not ignored, but repudiated.
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  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    That's like saying "being born in Krypton" is not relevant for a Superman story that doesn't mention it. If something is oifficial enforced canon, than it's official enforced canon.
    If Krypton was introduced 70 years into the franchise's history, an active story element for 2 years, then barely mentioned for the next 10 years, then it wouldn't be relevant. Just as Mopee wasn't relevant in 1984. Krypton remained relevant because it kept on getting used and fueled hundreds of stories.

    With long running franchise fiction, there's "canon" as in "this is a story element that is part of the continuity" and there's "Canon" with a capital C - the stuff that sticks, the stuff that becomes synonymous with the brand. With DC Comics especially, Canon is a survival of the fittest.

  11. #101
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    If Krypton was introduced 70 years into the franchise's history, an active story element for 2 years, then barely mentioned for the next 10 years, then it wouldn't be relevant. Just as Mopee wasn't relevant in 1984. Krypton remained relevant because it kept on getting used and fueled hundreds of stories.

    With long running franchise fiction, there's "canon" as in "this is a story element that is part of the continuity" and there's "Canon" with a capital C - the stuff that sticks, the stuff that becomes synonymous with the brand. With DC Comics especially, Canon is a survival of the fittest.
    I have to agree with this. There were certainly some stories prei-COIE that were avoided like the plague years later after they were written. The best evidence of that are the numerous Superman origin stories from the Mort Weisenger years, which almost match the number of different first times Felix and Oscar met on the old Odd Couple show.
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  12. #102
    Fantastic Member Dr. Ellingham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    You can argue that it ruined Wally's Flash family.
    Absolutely - it erased OG Wally and his history.

    That's what these "Vs" Flash threads are usually about at the core - Didio throwing away OG Wally. If it was Wally in Barry's place in the story, Flashpoint would be heralded on this board as yet another great Johns Flash story.

  13. #103
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    If Krypton was introduced 70 years into the franchise's history, an active story element for 2 years, then barely mentioned for the next 10 years, then it wouldn't be relevant. Just as Mopee wasn't relevant in 1984. Krypton remained relevant because it kept on getting used and fueled hundreds of stories.
    Yeah, here's the thing. Mopee was an obvious mistake and was immediately treated as such, in an era where continuity mattered way less. I know it seems like an obvious comparison to make, but there are as many diferences as there are similarities here.

    If we had two years of Mopee based stories and a reboot that was dependant on him and now and then we still heard his name, then yeah. But it's not the case.

    For all intents and purposes, Mopee was repudiated, as much as the the stories of the time demanded.

    With long running franchise fiction, there's "canon" as in "this is a story element that is part of the continuity" and there's "Canon" with a capital C - the stuff that sticks, the stuff that becomes synonymous with the brand. With DC Comics especially, Canon is a survival of the fittest.
    Oh, I completely agree with this. However, the "Barry is/created/feeds/all of those the speed Force" thing, although obviously not having what it takes to be Canon, keeps getting brought back and mentioned, and still exists as a ghost being dangled in front of everyone that it ruins. And that's why I said it needs to be repudiated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Ellingham View Post
    Absolutely - it erased OG Wally and his history.

    That's what these "Vs" Flash threads are usually about at the core - Didio throwing away OG Wally. If it was Wally in Barry's place in the story, Flashpoint would be heralded on this board as yet another great Johns Flash story.
    Although I agree with the general sentiment, I don't agree with your particular example: any character that was used to bring about a reboot, and specifically the New 52 reboot, would end up on the receiving end of a whole lot of hate.
    ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.

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  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Oh, I completely agree with this. However, the "Barry is/created/feeds/all of those the speed Force" thing, although obviously not having what it takes to be Canon, keeps getting brought back and mentioned, and still exists as a ghost being dangled in front of everyone that it ruins.
    How many times? How many issues?

  15. #105
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    How many times? How many issues?
    Too many. tenchar
    ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.

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