Did Flashpoint ruined the Flash and the Flash family ? Can it be undone ?

[CrimsonEchidna]

Did this happen? I thought Barry wasn't folded back into the Justice League comic until New 52. In the run immediately prior to New 52, Jesse Quick was the team speedster.

Oh yeah, that's right. McDuffie wanted to use Barry on the team since editorial decided he couldn't use Wally anymore and he got denied.

[The Darknight Detective]

One day (and it could be soon), someone who grew up reading Wally as their Flash will be elevated into a high position in the DC/WB corporate chain.

Every new television episode and movie appearance featuring Barry make that possibility that much more remote. In fact, had Wally been the beneficiary of those live-action appearances when he was still the prominent Flash, he never would have been replaced in the first place.

[Dred]

Not true at all. I take it you haven’t read many Silver and Bronze Age Flash stories or you would know that they were always treated equally whenever they were paired together. They never raced each other, so there’s no evidence for what you’re claiming there either.
Barry was the Fastest Man Alive on Earth 1 only. Whereas Jay and Johnny were the Fastest Men Alive on Earth 2

Have YOU read many Silver Age flash stories? Barry does absolutely absurd stuff that Jay never came within a breath of. Travelling across the universe running on rays of light faster than a fraction of an instant blah blah. Silver Age narration trumps anything anyone's ever done.

And yeah, their team ups almost always included Barry being shown as superior, as mentioned earlier. I have no idea where you're getting the idea that Barry wasn't considered superior to Jay.

[BohemiaDrinker]

It lasted a little over a year, and even then the run was too short for Geoff to develop it much. Relevant in 2010 maybe, not in 2020.

It still lasts. It was mentioned last month!

If it exists as a continuity footnote from about a decade ago, but hasn't been a plot point since, can it really be called a status quo?

Are writers still able to say that Jay or Wally "derive their powers from Barry"? Or that Barry is the creator and be-all-end-all? If so, then yes. (and they are).

In 1967 it was revealed that The Flash was granted his powers by a heavenly helpmate named Mopee. This was never brought up again, but it wasn't formally removed from the lore until 1985 - and that was just in an issue of Who's Who, not in-story.

But for anyone reading Flash comics in 1969, 1973, 1977, 1980, 1983, could that be called the status quo? Were those 18 years of Flash comics automatically crap and the character ruined because of an old plot point that was technically still in continuity, but no longer being used?

Mopee is not comparable here. It was a carppy move for Barry made on Barry's book. You can just ignore and it's fine. The Johns SF retcon is screwing with everyone else but Barry, to make Barry look superior. It needs to be negated!

Could you post the dead links? They might be available on the Internet Archive Wayback Machine.

Not anymore; I erased them as soon as I've seen they were dead (I like to keep my **** tight). I tried google cache before it (no luck), but didn't know about way-back machine. Still, I"ll keep looking for the Johns interview (the Didido one, where he talks about the Mike Baron status, is entirely transcripted in the other ink I posted)

[Lee]

Are writers still able to say that Jay or Wally "derive their powers from Barry"? Or that Barry is the creator and be-all-end-all? If so, then yes. (and they are).

There are an infinite number of things that a writer could hypothetically put into a comic. What matters is what's in the printed comic.

Mopee is not comparable here. It was a carppy move for Barry made on Barry's book. You can just ignore and it's fine. The Johns SF retcon is screwing with everyone else but Barry, to make Barry look superior. It needs to be negated!

"You can just ignore and it's fine" applies here. It's the same thing. They changed the origin of Flash's powers, but then went over a hundred Flash comics without mentioning it. If it annoys you and it's a deal breaker that it hasn't formally been removed from continuity, then you do you. But it's false to say that it's an ongoing presence in the Flash comic that is affecting current stories. For anyone who started reading Flash in 2012 or 2014 or 2017 or 2019 it's not even a thing. For anyone who picks up the latest Flash collected edition, a piece of continuity from a different Flash comic published a decade ago isn't going to affect their enjoyment.

[BohemiaDrinker]

There are an infinite number of things that a writer could hypothetically put into a comic. What matters is what's in the printed comic.

Again, this was in a comic last month.

"You can just ignore and it's fine" applies here. It's the same thing.

First things first: it doesn't annoy me that it hasn't been removed from continuity as much as it annoys me that it's been put in the continuity in the first place.

They changed the origin of Flash's powers, but then went over a hundred Flash comics without mentioning it. If it annoys you and it's a deal breaker that it hasn't formally been removed from continuity, then you do you.

They didn't go 100 Flash comics without mentioning it. It's there on the page, more than once, if you care to look for it. And even so, as much as you feel you need to counter me here, if you'll go go back you'll see that I did not, at any point, talked about 2020 Flash Family status; what I did say, and stand by, is that Flash: Rebirth ruined it. Because it did.

But it's false to say that it's an ongoing presence in the Flash comic that is affecting current stories. For anyone who started reading Flash in 2012 or 2014 or 2017 or 2019 it's not even a thing. For anyone who picks up the latest Flash collected edition, a piece of continuity from a different Flash comic published a decade ago isn't going to affect their enjoyment.

Even if it was false to say that, it doesn't touch my point in the slightest. But again, it isn't.

[Frontier]

Oh yeah, that's right. McDuffie wanted to use Barry on the team since editorial decided he couldn't use Wally anymore and he got denied.

That's kind of hilarious. McDuffie is fine with using Barry but DC won't even give him that .

Then again, it was McDuffie's JL run, and they wouldn't let him do anything .

[Lee]

Again, this was in a comic last month.

Yes, it was mentioned in Doomsday Clock #12. If that ruined Doomsday Clock #12 for someone, I can understand. But it didn't ruin the Rogues' Reign story arc in The Flash, because it wasn't brought up.

They didn't go 100 Flash comics without mentioning it. It's there on the page, more than once, if you care to look for it. And even so, as much as you feel you need to counter me here, if you'll go go back you'll see that I did not, at any point, talked about 2020 Flash Family status; what I did say, and stand by, is that Flash: Rebirth ruined it. Because it did.

So are you saying that Flash: Rebirth temporarily ruined things and the 2020 status is better?

[BohemiaDrinker]

Yes, it was mentioned in Doomsday Clock #12. If that ruined Doomsday Clock #12 for someone, I can understand. But it didn't ruin the Rogues' Reign story arc in The Flash, because it wasn't brought up.

That is one hell of an over-simplification. Not that I care about Rogues' Reign specifically, but, if you go search for "Avery Ho", and her powers come from "Barry Allen", yes, it's the status quo, and yes, it's crap. If you read stories on an arc by arc basis, fine for you, That's not true for everybody.

So are you saying that Flash: Rebirth temporarily ruined things and the 2020 status is better?

Yes. I said that some thread pages ago, actually. Which doesn't mean it's "good".

[Lee]

That is one hell of an over-simplification. Not that I care about Rogues' Reign specifically, but, if you go search for "Avery Ho", and her powers come from "Barry Allen", yes, it's the status quo, and yes, it's crap.

I Google searched "Avery Ho" and the top results said she got her powers from the Speed Force Storm. Couldn't find any results saying her powers came from Barry Allen.

[BohemiaDrinker]

I Google searched "Avery Ho" and the top results said she got her powers from the Speed Force Storm. Couldn't find any results saying her powers came from Barry Allen.

Nice! Now, if the "Speed Force" which rained wasn't Barry Allen (or fed by him. Or created by him) that would be ideal. But that's still the oficial canon.

[Ascended]

That's kind of hilarious. McDuffie is fine with using Barry but DC won't even give him that .

Then again, it was McDuffie's JL run, and they wouldn't let him do anything .

Why you gotta reopen old wounds, man?

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

Nice! Now, if the "Speed Force" which rained wasn't Barry Allen (or fed by him. Or created by him) that would be ideal. But that's still the oficial canon.

it is? aw, I thought it was last referenced like 2 reboots ago.

[BohemiaDrinker]

it is? aw, I thought it was last referenced like 2 reboots ago.

Nope. Last month.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

Nope. Last month.

lame. never heard of anyone who liked that. I'm a Barry fan and I don't like it.