Yeah time for the forever force.
Yeah time for the forever force.
I don't know about "retired"; it has some great uses. But it sure as hell could use a lot of toning down. It's predominance as a "theme", instead of what it was created for and supposed to be - unifying origin and explanation for speedsters - has overstayed it's welcome more than than the colored lanterns, and those are mostly gone already.
If it was up to me, we'd have a concise explanation on what it is (not Barry Allen! - Manapul's take is best, IMHO), what it can do, and leave at that. No one should enter the speed force, leave the speed force, "my speed force" shouldn't be reacting to "your speed force", etc.
I'm okay with creative uses for it, but it's became all things. This is surely detrimental.
ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.
To do spoiler tags, use [ spoil ] at the start of the sentence and [ /spoil ] at the end, without the spaces. You're welcome!
manwhohaseverything is right about this. Doomsday Clock presents the idea that as soon as the Speed Force came into existence, the Metaverse shifted and the multiverse was created. In theory, the Earth-2 that resulted from that split could have a Speed Force, but the Golden Age Metaverse that existed before the Silver Age had no Speed Force. Jay Garrick was fast because he fell asleep with the kettle on.
It didn't have all the details about Barry generating the Speed Force. It only said the Speed Force was born when lightning struck Barry Allen. Which in itself was never really "Barry created the Speed Force". Are we really supposed to think that it was an ordinary bolt of lightning, hitting an ordinary human and some chemicals, that created an ell-encompassing force of nature? One that we now know is one of four forces, and comes from beyond the Force Barrier? That lightning, whatever it was, is what did it.
I don't think it ruins Waid's Flash run. Those stories still exist as originally printed. They can be enjoyed on their own merits, without being concerned about other stories that came decades later. I don't think Waid's Flash comics are suddenly crap now.
Not Wally. Barry generates the Speed Force, but Wally is faster than the Speed Force. So Wally is clearly the most powerful one again, just as he was throughout Waid's run.
This is comics. Bruce Wayne once had a long lost criminally insane older brother. It was dumb. It should never have been part of the lore. The hundreds of Batman comics that followed simply ignored it. You can still pick up a Batman comic from 1981 and enjoy it in on its own merits. After all the DC reboots, it was erased from continuity. Gone forever! Forever and ever! Forever! For good! Gone! Until Scott Snyder brought the idea back, that maybe this new villain is Bruce Wayne's long lost criminally insane brother.
In DC Comics, when there's a piece of continuity a writer doesn't like, they can:
*Use it anyway
*Ignore it
*Explain it away
*Contradict it without explanation
On the flip side, a later writer can bring back a piece of continuity that has previously been retconned out.
So it's pointless worrying about which parts of comic book continuity a writer might use 5, 17, 23, 67 years from now. As long as stories continue to be written, you're never going to be safe from them potentially presenting ideas you don't like. All you can do is enjoy or not enjoy each story or run on its own merits.
The current Flash writer is ignoring/contradicting Geoff Johns' take on the Speed Force, he doesn't care for it. Maybe he'll end up explaining it away when he gets to the "four forces" story he's been building up. Who knows.
I think as it was originally presented, the Speed Force worked just fine.
It was the source of speedsters' powers, and also served as a Heaven/Valhalla for the speedsters who had fallen before. (Both good and evil)
Once it became just another destination anyone could come & go from without consequences it became the ultimate mcguffin.
"My name is Wally West. I'm the fastest man alive!"
I'll try being nicer if you try being smarter.
So the general gist I'm getting is "Flash Rebirth wasn't that good a story and we're better off ignoring or pretending it didn't happen."
[QUOTE=BohemiaDrinker;4795152]In theory, yes. But that's only valid for OG Earth . 2 JAy. Prime Earth Jay, no.
Why the hell does it have to be created "then"?It didn't have all the details about Barry generating the Speed Force. It only said the Speed Force was born when lightning struck Barry Allen. Which in itself was never really "Barry created the Speed Force". Are we really supposed to think that it was an ordinary bolt of lightning, hitting an ordinary human and some chemicals, that created an ell-encompassing force of nature? One that we now know is one of four forces, and comes from beyond the Force Barrier? That lightning, whatever it was, is what did it.
It turns things into a lie, dude. It's as simple as that.I don't think it ruins Waid's Flash run. Those stories still exist as originally printed. They can be enjoyed on their own merits, without being concerned about other stories that came decades later. I don't think Waid's Flash comics are suddenly crap now.
Does Barry generate the Speed Force or not? You kept telling me he doesn't. I believe that he doesn't (until he does again). That has never been my point here.Not Wally. Barry generates the Speed Force, but Wally is faster than the Speed Force. So Wally is clearly the most powerful one again, just as he was throughout Waid's run.
A better example would be "Batman used to kill people". That wasn't just ignored, it was deemed as an absurd notion. It's all I ask.This is comics. Bruce Wayne once had a long lost criminally insane older brother. It was dumb. It should never have been part of the lore. The hundreds of Batman comics that followed simply ignored it. You can still pick up a Batman comic from 1981 and enjoy it in on its own merits. After all the DC reboots, it was erased from continuity. Gone forever! Forever and ever! Forever! For good! Gone! Until Scott Snyder brought the idea back, that maybe this new villain is Bruce Wayne's long lost criminally insane brother.
In DC Comics, when there's a piece of continuity a writer doesn't like, they can:
*Use it anyway
*Ignore it
*Explain it away
*Contradict it without explanation
On the flip side, a later writer can bring back a piece of continuity that has previously been retconned out.
So it's pointless worrying about which parts of comic book continuity a writer might use 5, 17, 23, 67 years from now. As long as stories continue to be written, you're never going to be safe from them potentially presenting ideas you don't like. All you can do is enjoy or not enjoy each story or run on its own merits.
Maybe. Hopefully.The current Flash writer is ignoring/contradicting Geoff Johns' take on the Speed Force, he doesn't care for it. Maybe he'll end up explaining it away when he gets to the "four forces" story he's been building up. Who knows.
ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.
To do spoiler tags, use [ spoil ] at the start of the sentence and [ /spoil ] at the end, without the spaces. You're welcome!
This.
I loved the Speed Force when Waid first created it. Then suddenly everyone and their dog was racing around the accelerated aether and just... dissipated the wonder.
Still highly enjoying the Mark Waid reprints though.
I find it easier to ignore 'modern' shenanigans than to let go of what I loved in the 1990's.
Parental care is way exhausting. Gained insight into what my parents went through when I was a baby. Not fun, but what ya gonna do? (Read comics, obviously.)
Well, if we see jay garrick of two worlds running contest. Jay's abilities might shift. I think jay being someone who can tap into speed force but isn't tied to it would be awesome.I mean, even superman did kinda absord barry's speed force energy in metal to go to dark multiverse. So, jay being like that be better. Jay's speed can be caused by metagene, work and pure determination.
Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 01-22-2020 at 11:53 PM.
It doesn't turn Mark Waid's Flash run into bad comics. They can still be read and enjoyed and recommended on their own merits, just as the original Highlander film can be enjoyed on its own merits, even if the sequels undo the ending and introduce some very incongruous backstory.
You've repeatedly said that the Flash Family was ruined, and is currently ruined, and Avery sucks, and Jay Garrick sucks, and Wally West sucks because of the ideas that the Speed Force originated with Barry and he generates it, even though it hasn't been brought up in 99% of Flash comics from the past decade. If we're going by that premise, then we must also acknowledge that Wally West has now been said to move faster than the Speed Force.
That's exactly what happened in 2006's Flash: The Fastest Man Alive. His connection to the Speed Force was gone, but Jay Garrick was still a speedster because he was a metahuman.
Nah, i don`t think so.
I actually haven't; I suggest you go back and re-read my posts.You've repeatedly said that the Flash Family was ruined, and is currently ruined, and Avery sucks, and Jay Garrick sucks, and Wally West sucks because of the ideas that the Speed Force originated with Barry and he generates it, even though it hasn't been brought up in 99% of Flash comics from the past decade. If we're going by that premise, then we must also acknowledge that Wally West has now been said to move faster than the Speed Force.
ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.
To do spoiler tags, use [ spoil ] at the start of the sentence and [ /spoil ] at the end, without the spaces. You're welcome!
ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.
To do spoiler tags, use [ spoil ] at the start of the sentence and [ /spoil ] at the end, without the spaces. You're welcome!
I imagine they'd barely understand what's going on without some context as comics are created to be read in a serialized format with random arcs often being bad places to pick up instead of designated starting points.
Not like that. I want jay to be an outsider to speedforce. Sort off like might guy or lee if you watch naruto. I would want him to be able to use a power greater than the speed force itself as his ultimate powerup. But, it would cause massive damage to him and he might even get paralysed as a trad of. He would have these limiters to how much he can stress his body. He would get rid of these limiters to go beast.