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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Not from like the actual character, but more how much DC promotes and utilizes Harley and downplays Ivy or reduces her down to Harley's sidekick as a result.

    Even the Amy Chu mini, one of the few solo materials for Ivy, had to have Ivy shoo out Harley so she could get 5-minutes to herself.
    So the problem for Ivy is that Harley is pushed instead?

    When Harley is one of three female characters that DC sorta pushes (the other being Catwoman and Wonder Woman)? Instead of all the dudes they push?

    The answer to pulling up Ivy in the DC universe shouldn't be to push down Harley, or force a disconnect between the two. That way lies tokenism and and unhealthy obsession with status. It should be to pull up Ivy and all the other great female characters that DC has.

    DC pushes Batman and Joker far more than they push Harley, so why aren't they the problem?
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  2. #17
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    So the problem for Ivy is that Harley is pushed instead?

    When Harley is one of three female characters that DC sorta pushes (the other being Catwoman and Wonder Woman)? Instead of all the dudes they push?

    The answer to pulling up Ivy in the DC universe shouldn't be to push down Harley, or force a disconnect between the two. That way lies tokenism and and unhealthy obsession with status. It should be to pull up Ivy and all the other great female characters that DC has.

    DC pushes Batman and Joker far more than they push Harley, so why aren't they the problem?
    I agree with the principle that DC should pull up all their female characters to better prominence and stories, but I still feel this idea of Ivy being attached at the hip in what is basically a supporting role for Harley, or being incapable of doing really anything without Harley, has negatively impacted the character.

  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I agree with the principle that DC should pull up all their female characters to better prominence and stories, but I still feel this idea of Ivy being attached at the hip in what is basically a supporting role for Harley, or being incapable of doing really anything without Harley, has negatively impacted the character.
    They're relationship is very unique, strong, sweet and complex but I agree that I miss Ivy being alone in her own separate storyline.
    A picture would last longer darling...

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    Did anybody catch this? Pretty cool villainous depiction of Ivy at her seductive, manipulative best, though just like in the comic she meets an ignominious fate at the end of Catwoman's boot.

  5. #20
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    So the problem for Ivy is that Harley is pushed instead?

    When Harley is one of three female characters that DC sorta pushes (the other being Catwoman and Wonder Woman)? Instead of all the dudes they push?

    The answer to pulling up Ivy in the DC universe shouldn't be to push down Harley, or force a disconnect between the two. That way lies tokenism and and unhealthy obsession with status. It should be to pull up Ivy and all the other great female characters that DC has.

    DC pushes Batman and Joker far more than they push Harley, so why aren't they the problem?
    The problem is some higher-ups at DC think Ivy's greatest value lies in being a supporting character to Harley. That's what Frontier meant. Pushing Harley is great, and I am a fan of both her and her relationship with Ivy. But the narrative would be that much stronger if Ivy was built-up as her own character instead of just the love interest or the BFF.

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