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  1. #91
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Man, she really looks like Hela...

  2. #92
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    the idea was for her to develop the green man mask that everyone in the parliament of the trees gains combined with like antler type headdress. hela was not something that went though my mind when i was brainstorming this but more along the lines of a forest spirit and protector i actually settled on the latter more antler branch like version

  3. #93
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebezial View Post
    the idea was for her to develop the green man mask that everyone in the parliament of the trees gains combined with like antler type headdress. hela was not something that went though my mind when i was brainstorming this but more along the lines of a forest spirit and protector i actually settled on the latter more antler branch like version
    I love it, especially the autumn leaves version.

  4. #94
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    Gotham City Sirens is definitely one of those things I thought I would like a lot more than I actually did. The characters are very different thematically and so bringing them together is a case of the whole being less than the sum of its parts. None of them work particularly well as supporting characters, so it tends to be more a case of competing storylines fighting for panel space rather than an developing a compelling team dynamic. And you know that a film adaptation will try to turn Harley into the lead which just seems weird given that she's silly comic relief of the trio.
    I don't think anyone can deny that the concept of Gotham City Sirens struck a chord with fans. I also think that what we got on page largely failed to live up to the concept. It's not like Paul Dini is famous for his ability to write relations between women…

    However, I think that Conner and Palmiotti proved that the concept can work well in the right hands with their 2015 Road Trip special. Three sympathetic antiheroines with non-standard and different moral values can certainly make for good drama, and the found family theme would be real powerful. But it'd have to the characters at exactly the correct time in their development: Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy not yet hooked up, Catwoman before being engaged with Batman, Harley Quinn after breaking up with the Joker.

    The key here would I think be to keep one long-running inner "domestic" storyline, and rotate the focus for the outer stories between the three.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  5. #95
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I don't think anyone can deny that the concept of Gotham City Sirens struck a chord with fans. I also think that what we got on page largely failed to live up to the concept. It's not like Paul Dini is famous for his ability to write relations between women…

    However, I think that Conner and Palmiotti proved that the concept can work well in the right hands with their 2015 Road Trip special. Three sympathetic antiheroines with non-standard and different moral values can certainly make for good drama, and the found family theme would be real powerful. But it'd have to the characters at exactly the correct time in their development: Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy not yet hooked up, Catwoman before being engaged with Batman, Harley Quinn after breaking up with the Joker.

    The key here would I think be to keep one long-running inner "domestic" storyline, and rotate the focus for the outer stories between the three.
    I thought Dini did a solid job writing a team dynamic and grouping of all three ladies during the point of their lives that run had them at, and for the most part that book had them in those status quos you illustrate (depending on how "hooked up" Harley and Ivy need to be).

  6. #96
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I thought Dini did a solid job writing a team dynamic and grouping of all three ladies during the point of their lives that run had them at, and for the most part that book had them in those status quos you illustrate (depending on how "hooked up" Harley and Ivy need to be).
    Having a burgeoning romance between Harley and Ivy would certainly make for a good long-running "domestic" plot.

    I know that the extremely male gaze-y art interfered with my reading of the book, and generally it read like Dini wrote them far too "catty" against each other. The long-term trend was towards decreasing trust and friendship between them rather than increased.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  7. #97
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Having a burgeoning romance between Harley and Ivy would certainly make for a good long-running "domestic" plot.

    I know that the extremely male gaze-y art interfered with my reading of the book, and generally it read like Dini wrote them far too "catty" against each other. The long-term trend was towards decreasing trust and friendship between them rather than increased.
    Initially the relationship between them was pretty icy but that fit with their history up to that point. Selina was more of a good guy by then and had spent more time fighting Harley and Ivy for one reason or another then she did teaming-up with them. But you could see they were starting to grow more as friends as the series went on in my opinion. But they were never gal pals prior to that.

  8. #98
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Having a burgeoning romance between Harley and Ivy would certainly make for a good long-running "domestic" plot.

    I know that the extremely male gaze-y art interfered with my reading of the book, and generally it read like Dini wrote them far too "catty" against each other. The long-term trend was towards decreasing trust and friendship between them rather than increased.
    They were all much edgier characters back then, though not as edgy as the n52 would push Harley. Dini's stuff actually tended towards bringing them closer together - it was Milligan who really ripped them apart, in my reading.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
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  10. #100
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    Are those from Harleen? Really hope he gets to do the other two.

  11. #101
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAWRlrus View Post
    Are those from Harleen? Really hope he gets to do the other two.
    They are rather crudely edited pictures of Poison Ivy from Harleen. Stjepan has two followups planned for that one, and is pitching Isley as well.

    these are for harleen. isley has her own story that i'm pitching which is in full continuity with this one
    Ivy doesn't really play an important role in Harleen, but she makes a large impression every time she appears. I guess she will play an important secondary role in the "Harley & Joker" followup, and then the concluding "Harley & Ivy" (names only placeholders here) will of course have her on full display.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  12. #102

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    All Ivy fans should watch the HQ cartoon. She is by far the most compelling character in it. And she has some of the best lines.
    A picture would last longer darling...

  13. #103
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    While I prefer a more sinister take on Pamela (like BTAS), I will say that I really enjoy Harley Quinn (animated) Ivy. I think the fact that she could explore relationships outside of Harley helps (I've never liked when Ivy was treated as Harley's sidekick), also her snarky attitude bouncing off of characters like Dr. Psycho makes her very humorous as well.

  14. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    While I prefer a more sinister take on Pamela (like BTAS), I will say that I really enjoy Harley Quinn (animated) Ivy. I think the fact that she could explore relationships outside of Harley helps (I've never liked when Ivy was treated as Harley's sidekick), also her snarky attitude bouncing off of characters like Dr. Psycho makes her very humorous as well.
    Agreed! But it feels like a an alternate universe almost so I do appreciate their take on the characters in this. Ivy shines and is the powerhouse. Can’t wait to see what they do with her next season. I’m sure it will be grand.

    BTAS Ivy is also my favorite Ivy.
    A picture would last longer darling...

  15. #105
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Yeah, I wouldn't say she's my ideal take but Lake Bell's Ivy has really found a way to standout in that show and do a really interesting and different take.

    I also like how, instead of being Harley's sidekick or supportive gal pal, she proves to be far more dangerous and capable then Harley is and very involved in Harley's personal and professional successes. Harley would have accomplished nothing in the finale if not for Ivy.

    I'm not crazy about the costume though.

    I am really curious for the show to go more into her background though. We got a glimpse of her as a kid that was very interesting for the implications.

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