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  1. #46
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    Ecofeminist-Punisher.
    That'll work .
    Hope Larson's Batgirl you mean? I think Gail Simone had a much stronger grasp on Ivy in her version of Batgirl.
    Yeah, Larson. I agree I thought Simone delivered a much more interesting take and dynamic there.
    Except he is not very effective at it by mostly targeting the underprivileged and/or desperate. Otherwise he could directly shake up the status quo with his billions.

    Of course though, Bruce Wayne is directly inspired by Zorro, which in turn was inspired by The Scarlet Pimpernel, written by an aristocratic woman as a fantasy hero for the 1% facing the dangers of peasant uprisings in post-French Revolution Europe. So maintaining the status quo is inadvertently baked into his DNA.
    I don't think he does that though? He targets all criminals. I mean, his big speech in Year One was to some rich mafioso's eating it up while Gotham suffers:



    There's also been canon material of Bruce Wayne trying to help the underprivileged with his resources.

  2. #47
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Poison Ivy for eco-Punisher?
    That might not be a bad direction for some writer to pull her in. I'm not sure it's the best one (most depictions of her would be ridiculously overpowered for it), but it definitely could be an interesting elseworlds story. Sejic's Ivy story in Secret Origins #10 is probably a good example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I also just find Ivy on the side of the angels to be a tad boring, which is why I didn't really enjoy her in stuff like the recent Birds of Prey or her guest appearance in Batgirl.
    I agree that Ivy should not be written as a standard DC hero. One should look more at the Vertigo stuff, where Swamp Thing is the obvious model. But other writers have written a "good" good Ivy. Gail Simone did it in Batgirl Annual #2. The key here is of course to make sure her goals, priorities, and ways to reason are different from everyone else's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I liked the take on their dynamic in this one-shot. Although I think Batman is more about trying to work with the system to root out injustice, rather then protecting the status quo, because the "status quo" of Gotham is what got his parents killed. He's an agent of change, just with different methods then Ivy has.
    I don't agree with this. If one is to look at an agent of change amongst the DC heroes as constructed, Wonder Woman is the clear #1. She is here to change society. Superman is more about improving society. Batman, on the other hand, is here to protect society from people who damage it, if one looks at it charitably, or to cull it of its worst elements, if one puts uncharitably.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  3. #48
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    That might not be a bad direction for some writer to pull her in. I'm not sure it's the best one (most depictions of her would be ridiculously overpowered for it), but it definitely could be an interesting elseworlds story. Sejic's Ivy story in Secret Origins #10 is probably a good example.
    Well, it's definitely not too far off from how she's been depicted before.
    I agree that Ivy should not be written as a standard DC hero. One should look more at the Vertigo stuff, where Swamp Thing is the obvious model. But other writers have written a "good" good Ivy. Gail Simone did it in Batgirl Annual #2. The key here is of course to make sure her goals, priorities, and ways to reason are different from everyone else's.
    I don't think she was really "good" in that annual though. More mixed up and misunderstood then anything else.
    I don't agree with this. If one is to look at an agent of change amongst the DC heroes as constructed, Wonder Woman is the clear #1. She is here to change society. Superman is more about improving society. Batman, on the other hand, is here to protect society from people who damage it, if one looks at it charitably, or to cull it of its worst elements, if one puts uncharitably.
    I think the Trinity all effect change in their own way, or at least try to. None of them are the types who accept the world as is, otherwise they wouldn't be doing what they do.

    I don't think "cull" is a good way of describing it when Batman doesn't kill people.

  4. #49
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    LOL CBR sorted the biggest DC villains into the Myers-Briggs personalities and Ivy is an INTP according to them.

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    CBR clearly doesn't know their comic books history. The only true personality test for DC characters is clearly the DISC one.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  6. #51
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Poison Ivy for eco-Punisher?
    Harley Quinn showrunners got you covered lol

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    CBR clearly doesn't know their comic books history. The only true personality test for DC characters is clearly the DISC one.
    What does DISC mean?

  8. #53
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    What does DISC mean?
    Dominance (D), Influence (I), Steadiness (S), and Conscientiousness (C).

    Now, DISC is probably about as useful for analysing comic book characters as Myers-Briggs, but the theory behind DISC was developed by a guy named William Marston that you might have heard of
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  9. #54
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    Harley Quinn showrunners got you covered lol
    I don't think I've ever seen Ivy use a gun, come to think of it.

  10. #55
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I don't think I've ever seen Ivy use a gun, come to think of it.


    In one of her earliest appearances in a backup story of the Lois Lane comic, Ivy tried to take out an oddly familiar looking nemesis with a pistol, but wasn't able to get a shot off before Thorn beat the absolute stuffing out of her.
    Last edited by PwrdOn; 02-02-2020 at 11:38 AM.

  11. #56
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    "You're being a bit rash, Ivy!"

    The writer after coming up with that line.

  12. #57
    Amazing Member darkeyes's Avatar
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    I remember she held a gun in the daily newspaper comics once, and had a plant-controlling gun in Justice League of America #111.

    pi gun.JPG

    plant gun.jpg

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Time to plant some hope, courtesy of Sejic over on Twitter:

    good day today, finished writing my outline for Isley pitch, wrote my next sunstone update, drew a page and about to draw another
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  14. #59

  15. #60
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    Jurnee Smollett-Bell who plays Black Canary in Birds of Prey wants the Birds to go up against Ivy and the Sirens in a possible sequel.

    Around the 22:10 point

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