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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    Jurnee Smollett-Bell who plays Black Canary in Birds of Prey wants the Birds to go up against Ivy and the Sirens in a possible sequel.

    Around the 22:10 point
    Hey, if it takes Harley off the team, I'm all for it .

  2. #62
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Speaking of Harley, here's Margot Robbie's take on who Ivy would make a great duo with:

    https://twitter.com/drisleys/status/1224751788143841283

  3. #63
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    They're not wrong.

    Meanwhile, Stjepan Sejic's fertile brain is at it again over on Twitter.

    her teacher, a guide in the Green

    he calls her a sapling, she calls him father of the woods
    because she doesn't like the name others call him by.

    i said it before and i'll say it again, conceptualizing a comic is always so much fun.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

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  5. #65
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Cool! Just got back from Birds of Prey, but I'm not sure how to tonally mesh this version of Harley Quinn with Poison Ivy.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  6. #66

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    They need more money and a better director if they want Ivy in it. I felt this movie was entertaining bit felt cheap and too superficial. Ivy needs good effects and a complex storyline.
    A picture would last longer darling...

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    Speaking of Harley, here's Margot Robbie's take on who Ivy would make a great duo with:

    https://twitter.com/drisleys/status/1224751788143841283
    In terms of intentions, yeah, if not methods...
    I'm kind of wondering how Ivy with Yan's style would look and feel, given how she depicted the BoP ladies.

  8. #68
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MentalManipulator View Post
    They need more money and a better director if they want Ivy in it. I felt this movie was entertaining bit felt cheap and too superficial. Ivy needs good effects and a complex storyline.
    Based on the movie that I saw, I'd say Yan is an excellent director. She might not be the right director for a movie involving a full-power Poison Ivy, but Birds of Prey had a rather complex storyline that only appears simple because it was executed so well.

    The tricky thing is rather how to gel this vision of Harley Quinn with a version of Poison Ivy, both from a narrative, stylistic, and tonal point of view. Because I think an Ivy in today's world requires an Harley that changes and evolves, and looks at herself seriously.

    I'd also disagree that Ivy needs a complex storyline. If anything, I think superhero movies do better when based on simpler plots. The big Marvel team-up movies are an outlier here, because they depend so much on storylines from other movies, and even so they have become overloaded and overlength narrative behemoths.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  9. #69
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    Yeah, so, Birds of Prey isn't doing so hot at the box office.

    Coupled with the fact that the Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy mini has been outselling Harley's solo book (which currently doesn't feature Ivy), it does underline how Ivy is absolutely vital in generating demand for Harley featuring content (especially when the Joker is playing a small role too).

  10. #70
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    Yeah, so, Birds of Prey isn't doing so hot at the box office.

    Coupled with the fact that the Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy mini has been outselling Harley's solo book (which currently doesn't feature Ivy), it does underline how Ivy is absolutely vital in generating demand for Harley featuring content (especially when the Joker is playing a small role too).
    I think you are reasoning ahead of your data here. I'm all for more Ivy content (with or without Harley), but I think there are much more likely explanations for Harley struggling right now in the market than an absence of Ivy.

    Starting with my impression that Sam Humphries isn't doing that great a job with the Harley Quinn ongoing solo. Or that the marketing of the movie wasn't done that well.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I think you are reasoning ahead of your data here. I'm all for more Ivy content (with or without Harley), but I think there are much more likely explanations for Harley struggling right now in the market than an absence of Ivy.

    Starting with my impression that Sam Humphries isn't doing that great a job with the Harley Quinn ongoing solo. Or that the marketing of the movie wasn't done that well.
    It's not just me. A lot of people online are saying they would have been more interested in the film if it had been an adaptation of the Harley and Ivy episode or if it had been Gotham City Sirens instead of a Oracle-less Birds of Prey with Harley front and centre.



    There's also the fact that just the presence of iconic characters like Poison Ivy and Catwoman would have made the marketing more potent by itself. It's telling how many Ivy questions were posed to the cast and director during their interviews.

  12. #72
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    It's not just me. A lot of people online are saying they would have been more interested in the film if it had been an adaptation of the Harley and Ivy episode or if it had been Gotham City Sirens instead of a Oracle-less Birds of Prey with Harley front and centre.

    There's also the fact that just the presence of iconic characters like Poison Ivy and Catwoman would have made the marketing more potent by itself. It's telling how many Ivy questions were posed to the cast and director during their interviews.
    First is that market research is really tricky, because people are generally terrible at expressing what they want. It's also real easy and safe to dismiss something by saying that they'd prefer it to be X instead, when X doesn't exist.

    I agree that the marketing of this movie wasn't done well, especially not the early one. The movie we got in the end was fine, but the early marketing sold it as something it wasn't and that it was clearly wasn't going to be, leading to all sorts of drama based on expectations.

    As an fan of Oracle and the original Birds of Prey runs, the film we got is more than fine by me. If WB wants to do a film based on the Birds of Prey with the Oracle, this movie can easily serve as a prologue to that.

    Would a GCS film have been easier to market? Sure, but as I understand it WB had different script writers working on different potential Harley Quinn scripts, and this one was deemed the strongest. Because the GCS isn't some mythic thing with great unleashed potential.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    It's not just me. A lot of people online are saying they would have been more interested in the film if it had been an adaptation of the Harley and Ivy episode or if it had been Gotham City Sirens instead of a Oracle-less Birds of Prey with Harley front and centre.
    I would've been down for a Harley and Ivy movie over trying to stick Harley and the BoP together.

    Have Rene be the one trying to bust these two gal pals on their crime spree and we could even get a recreation of this iconic scene:


  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Based on the movie that I saw, I'd say Yan is an excellent director. She might not be the right director for a movie involving a full-power Poison Ivy, but Birds of Prey had a rather complex storyline that only appears simple because it was executed so well.

    The tricky thing is rather how to gel this vision of Harley Quinn with a version of Poison Ivy, both from a narrative, stylistic, and tonal point of view. Because I think an Ivy in today's world requires an Harley that changes and evolves, and looks at herself seriously.

    I'd also disagree that Ivy needs a complex storyline. If anything, I think superhero movies do better when based on simpler plots. The big Marvel team-up movies are an outlier here, because they depend so much on storylines from other movies, and even so they have become overloaded and overlength narrative behemoths.
    We clearly have very different standards as to what an excellent director or a complex storyline is. I still think Catwoman and Poison Ivy would work in a more intellectual setting. This was just to silly and easy.
    Last edited by MentalManipulator; 02-11-2020 at 09:37 PM.
    A picture would last longer darling...

  15. #75
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    The Hollywood Reporter has written a whole article on why the Birds of Prey sequel should be a Poison Ivy team-up

    Harley Quinn (Margot Robbie) may be free from her relationship with the Joker, but there’s sure to still be a significant amount of toxicity in her life going forward, because she is still Harley Quinn after all. If there’s one character who can help mitigate some of those toxins, it’s Poison Ivy.

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