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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    So just erases the children?
    I wouldn't mind if the girls were introduced as cousins to Jeff and Lynn as an ex girlfriend or something. However Jeff as he is now is in a good position, no family drama and open to exploring new relationships. Don't pigeonhole him as the family man constantly worrying about what his girls are up to, or marital issues with Lynn. A potential romance with Tatsu is great for both of them and can lead to exciting new opportunities for Jeff going forward.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9th. View Post
    I understand what you're saying I do but I just have a problem with using the word old. Age doesn't work like that in comics, techically Bruce, Clark, and all of them should be showing greys due to Dicks generation being adults (and some of them have/had kids) but thats not the case. He can still be in prime form with daughters, having a million children hasn't stopped Bruce one bit and wouldn't stop Jeff from deveopling either.
    I've never understood why comics are so resistant to having some of their characters be old(relatively speaking), especially when it makes sense for some of them(Batman in particular). Age rarely stops anyone from being competent or kicking butt in a manga and comics should learn from that.

    The idea that some posters have that BL being family man hold him back doesn't really make sense.

  3. #123
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Do you guys think Hill would have shown more of black lightnining and katana actually being romantic if the creator didn't go on his rant a few months ago?

  4. #124
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    Do you guys think Hill would have shown more of black lightnining and katana actually being romantic if the creator didn't go on his rant a few months ago?
    What was the rant about? I must've missed it or forgot.
    Reading List (Super behind but reading them nonetheless):
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  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    I've never understood why comics are so resistant to having some of their characters be old(relatively speaking), especially when it makes sense for some of them(Batman in particular). Age rarely stops anyone from being competent or kicking butt in a manga and comics should learn from that.

    The idea that some posters have that BL being family man hold him back doesn't really make sense.
    Can’t be better said

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    I've never understood why comics are so resistant to having some of their characters be old(relatively speaking), especially when it makes sense for some of them(Batman in particular). Age rarely stops anyone from being competent or kicking butt in a manga and comics should learn from that.

    The idea that some posters have that BL being family man hold him back doesn't really make sense.
    If Black Lightning fans got a chance to enjoy Black Lightning the same way others got to enjoy Batman & Superman then there’d be no problem. They didn’t though. Batman should be older now. Superman should be further on.

    Y’all got to watch their growth and maturation. Fans of BL caught a speed pass that skipped over all the developments and just had an older vet to barely read about because the daughters, who appeared out of nowhere, became a focus.

    No one would like that to happen to their favorite character. Especially when the last time you saw him he was young and single. Next thing you know he’s married with adult children. What happened along the way? Why deny us that story?

    You may have only become aware of Jeff as an elder statesmen, but that’s not how other BL fans were introduced to him.

  7. #127
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9th. View Post
    What was the rant about? I must've missed it or forgot.
    Basically the creator was upset when it was even hinted at Jefferson getting with someone besides his ex wife. Said it ruins his character or something to that effect.

  8. #128
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    Also why is saddling characters with kids seen as a good thing, does it make the character inherently better or something? If anything it takes focus away from the character and puts in on the kid(s), and often not for the better. What has the introduction of Damian done for Batman, has his inclusion enhanced Bruce? If anything it's made Bruce look worse to a lot of people, the worst parent in the DUC according to some. What has Jon's inclusion done for Clark, how has it made him better? They are taking away Clark's history to give to Jon, it's Jon now who is responsible for the Legion of Superheros and the United Planets not Clark. And what has Thunder and Lightning done for Jeff, how have they enhanced him and made him better as a character? What would their inclusion now do for him or how would it benefit him. In actuality their introduction would only benefit the girls themselves and most likely the focus would slowly shift to them to the detriment of Jeff. He would no doubt fall into the overbearing, overprotective, over controlling dad trope that would make the girls rebel to prove themselves. Jeff does not need that. Jeff is in a good spot now and the entire DUC is open to him. Not every character needs to be tied down with a family, let him be a young man and enjoy his freedom.

  9. #129
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    I wouldn't mind if the girls were introduced as cousins to Jeff and Lynn as an ex girlfriend or something. However Jeff as he is now is in a good position, no family drama and open to exploring new relationships. Don't pigeonhole him as the family man constantly worrying about what his girls are up to, or marital issues with Lynn. A potential romance with Tatsu is great for both of them and can lead to exciting new opportunities for Jeff going forward.
    Isn't that what Isabella did with them for that mini-series? I feel like it's completely missing the point, though.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Isn't that what Isabella did with them for that mini-series? I feel like it's completely missing the point, though.
    It is missing the point.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    Also why is saddling characters with kids seen as a good thing, does it make the character inherently better or something? If anything it takes focus away from the character and puts in on the kid(s), and often not for the better. What has the introduction of Damian done for Batman, has his inclusion enhanced Bruce? If anything it's made Bruce look worse to a lot of people, the worst parent in the DUC according to some. What has Jon's inclusion done for Clark, how has it made him better? They are taking away Clark's history to give to Jon, it's Jon now who is responsible for the Legion of Superheros and the United Planets not Clark. And what has Thunder and Lightning done for Jeff, how have they enhanced him and made him better as a character? What would their inclusion now do for him or how would it benefit him. In actuality their introduction would only benefit the girls themselves and most likely the focus would slowly shift to them to the detriment of Jeff. He would no doubt fall into the overbearing, overprotective, over controlling dad trope that would make the girls rebel to prove themselves. Jeff does not need that. Jeff is in a good spot now and the entire DUC is open to him. Not every character needs to be tied down with a family, let him be a young man and enjoy his freedom.
    Batman was sketchy and a terrible parental figure long before Damian was introduced.

    DC botched Jon, along with most of Superman's surrogate children/ family members in the past.

    If editors and some fans are scared that the daughters will somehow undermine BL(an opinion I think is kind of silly) they could put them on other teams.

  12. #132
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    Why are people acting like he became a superhero when he already had the daughters. He was a hero long before right? What's wrong with having them exist and still telling stories in his Youth. Unless want to tell me he's in his 20s in the 2010 era, you can tell stories in the early 2000s and the 90s right?
    Last edited by Shockingjustice; 10-13-2020 at 05:27 PM.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shockingjustice View Post
    Why are people acting like he became a superhero when he already had the daughters. He was a hero long before right? What's wrong with having them exist and still telling stories in his Youth. Unless want to tell me he's in his 20s in the 2010 era, you can tell stories in the early 2000s and the 90s right?
    Current BL is depicted as being in his mid twenties- early thirties.

    What bothers me more than the absence of his daughters is that the current writer made him to dependant on Batman.

    It left a bad taste in my mouth that Batman 'upgraded' his powerset when BL had all those abilities without needing Batman's upgrade in the past.

    Its like the writer made him inexperienced to shill Batman.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. D. Guy View Post
    I sorta recall speaking on this before in brief, but this makes for a good sum-up of what I feel about Jefferson Pierce's situation with having his daughters in the forefront his present-day existence. If Black Lightning had the presence and focus and permanence and contiguous history that Bruce Wayne/Batman has, or even something that could be said to be reminiscent, then it'd be fine.

    As it stands, it feels like most of the people who say they want Anissa and Jennifer only say that because they only actually care for/about Thunder and Lightning. While that is fine to feel that way in and of itself, I feel that Black Lightning as he currently stands would largely be held back by their inclusion, if not outright hampered. If Jefferson enjoyed more of the luxuries Bruce does, then the Black Lightning brand could afford this kind fandom-within-a-fandom laser focus. Because it would always, in the grand scheme and regardless of the trappings of any single story, uplift the parent brand in some way, shape, or form. That's why I don't have issue with this way of thought in the Bat-verse, and in fact actively encourage it because of the breadth and depth of new ground that the Batfamily can cover that Bruce cannot do by himself at this late juncture.

    Right now, however, Jefferson needs the opposite. He needs the focus. He, specifically, needs the hype and the feats. And any family and community he builds needs to be shown getting actively built (not retroactively) and shown actively how they uplift and support Jefferson as he does them as their leader, hero, patriarch, father, brother, mentor, and confidante. (This would include his daughters as well as any other proteges and auxiliary heroes and people that would grow to become part of his inner circle.)
    Jennifer and Anissa are not a threat to Jefferson getting focus. If anything, they've done the opposite and helped bring more attention to the character than he's had since Batman and the Outsiders.

    Before the Black Lightning show, Jefferson's most major appearances in outside media were:

    * Batman: The Brave and the Bold where he was depicted as an angry black man stereotype.

    * A wordless role in Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths.

    * Superman/Batman: Public Enemies where he had exactly one line of dialogue.

    It is not a coincidence that the two most well-received adaptations of Black Lightning (Young Justice and the CW show) are the ones that did keep his history as a divorced father of two. Anissa and Jen did not take any attention away from Black Lightning in season 3 of YJ.

    When Anissa and Jen appeared in the comics, Jefferson still got the lion's share of focus.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    Also why is saddling characters with kids seen as a good thing, does it make the character inherently better or something? If anything it takes focus away from the character and puts in on the kid(s), and often not for the better. What has the introduction of Damian done for Batman, has his inclusion enhanced Bruce? If anything it's made Bruce look worse to a lot of people, the worst parent in the DUC according to some. What has Jon's inclusion done for Clark, how has it made him better? They are taking away Clark's history to give to Jon, it's Jon now who is responsible for the Legion of Superheros and the United Planets not Clark. And what has Thunder and Lightning done for Jeff, how have they enhanced him and made him better as a character? What would their inclusion now do for him or how would it benefit him. In actuality their introduction would only benefit the girls themselves and most likely the focus would slowly shift to them to the detriment of Jeff. He would no doubt fall into the overbearing, overprotective, over controlling dad trope that would make the girls rebel to prove themselves. Jeff does not need that. Jeff is in a good spot now and the entire DUC is open to him. Not every character needs to be tied down with a family, let him be a young man and enjoy his freedom.
    Why is having kids seen as making a character inherently worse? Jefferson wasn't depicted that way in the comics and Jennifer and Anissa have helped his popularity. You don't have to like the characters but pretending they've harmed is character is inaccurate and ludicrous.

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