Post-Crisis, Pre-52 Appreciation 2020

[David Walton]

I mean, I'm generally positive towards Bendis, but I think he's extremely varied. Dixon varied a bit, too - how could you not, with that many titles - but not nearly as much as Bendis for me.

Bendis tends to go all in on a BIG IDEA, so your enjoyment will depend almost entirely on whether you're sold on that concept regardless of how well-written it is. Dixon tends to go in for a lot of smaller ideas bouncing off each other and adding up over time, which means it's easier to wait it out if the book hits a lull. The flip side being if you're sold on that mind-blowing re-invention Bendis won't lose your attention.

I do wish the Bat-office felt more like a group of buddies who all read and planned together constantly. But even when you have close collaborators, like Tynion and Snyder, their stuff doesn't always seem to line up these days. I don't quite know how that could be fixed, but I do think Tynion is the type to try it.

Maybe so! He's a fun writer at any rate. And given his TEC run he clearly had nothing but love for the extended Bat-family and their dynamics.

[Stanlos]

You're in for a treat with Birds of Prey especially when you get to Simone's run which is the G.O.A.T.

I reflected on that as I sat stupefied in the dark while the credits rolled after BOP ended.

[millernumber1]

I reflected on that as I sat stupefied in the dark while the credits rolled after BOP ended.

Speaking of Birds of Prey, my trades of Batman/Huntress: Cry for Blood and Birds of Prey: Mystery and Murder came in! I have two all time classics now, thanks to the film. If for nothing else, I'm grateful to it for that!

[gregpersons]

I was re-reading the end of this era and I want to give a shout out to

BATMAN #713 by Fabian Nicieza as what I feel to be the perfect "end" to the story of this universe. It encapsulates what I feel are the themes of this era — legacy — with Dick Grayson as the permanent Batman of Gotham, Damian as his student, and Bruce going global.

To me, this issue is the "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" for the Post-Crisis Batman. It gets overlooked compared to Neil Gaiman's ending story but that one is a broader take on Batman, and of course Morrison's run doesn't really end this universe, so in my mind "the end" of this story happens in this issue and I love it.

[millernumber1]

Because of the sale for Birds of Prey, I finally completed my Birds of Prey by Simone purchase. Very pleased. And I started rereading it, continuing on from my Mystery and Murder reread. Such a wonderful series. Also, I went back on DCUniverse and read the Canary Dates Ra's Al Ghul and Gets Her Canary Cry back. I know that Hunt for Oracle gets all the attention these days, but I think that the Ra's arc is pretty close in quality. The covers by JG Jones and Phil Noto are absolutely gorgeous, and the character work with Babs, Dinah, and Jason is delightful.

[charliehustle415]

I was re-reading the end of this era and I want to give a shout out to

BATMAN #713 by Fabian Nicieza as what I feel to be the perfect "end" to the story of this universe. It encapsulates what I feel are the themes of this era — legacy — with Dick Grayson as the permanent Batman of Gotham, Damian as his student, and Bruce going global.

To me, this issue is the "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" for the Post-Crisis Batman. It gets overlooked compared to Neil Gaiman's ending story but that one is a broader take on Batman, and of course Morrison's run doesn't really end this universe, so in my mind "the end" of this story happens in this issue and I love it.

Hell yeah; loved that issue

[Wrestler]

I'm reading Batman Knightquest, in Detective Comics #668, Tim Drake finds a way to the batcave after Jean Paul as Batman seals other entrances (including the one Tim build under his house), he (Robin) says, "Funny. This is how I got this job. I found my own way into the batcave". As I remember, it's not mentioned in "A Lonely place of dying" that he finds his own way into the batcave, he even express surprise as Dick and Alfred are showing him the cave.

Does he have another origin which includes him finding his own way into the cave or maybe he is simply talking about that time he planned a entrance way to the batcave from his own home (the one who was also shut by Paul)? Anyone care to explain? Thanks!

[Adset]

Timely thread: currently going to read War Games for the first time.

I was a 90s teen and read the Bat-books fairly consistently from Knightfall through Murderer/Fugitive, but mostly dropped them before coming back with Morrison. I’ve since gone back and read through some of the stuff I had missed, but never War Games. It doesn’t appear to be anyone’s favorite (at least from what I’ve seen?) but I’m going to give it a shot.

[millernumber1]

Timely thread: currently going to read War Games for the first time.

I was a 90s teen and read the Bat-books fairly consistently from Knightfall through Murderer/Fugitive, but mostly dropped them before coming back with Morrison. I’ve since gone back and read through some of the stuff I had missed, but never War Games. It doesn’t appear to be anyone’s favorite (at least from what I’ve seen?) but I’m going to give it a shot.

Oh, boy.

I'm a weird Stephanie Brown fan in that War Games was one of the first things I read, and I came out of it feeling very sympathetic to Steph. However, it's very poorly executed in several ways, despite some really cool concepts. I'll be very curious to see what you think about it.

Also, I would recommend reading this short story before reading Robin #126 - I think it fills in quite a bit of motivation: https://stephaniebrown.fandom.com/wi...d_Magazine_150

[gregpersons]

Timely thread: currently going to read War Games for the first time.

I was a 90s teen and read the Bat-books fairly consistently from Knightfall through Murderer/Fugitive, but mostly dropped them before coming back with Morrison. I’ve since gone back and read through some of the stuff I had missed, but never War Games. It doesn’t appear to be anyone’s favorite (at least from what I’ve seen?) but I’m going to give it a shot.

Earlier in this thread on page one I think I make some argument in favor of War Games... it's not the best, but it does achieve a feeling of epicness and really pushes Bruce to the lowest of lowly low points, and a lot of the blame is his, mainly indirectly but also very directly. I think it's an interesting story especially in the larger context of this specific universe for that reason.

I'm reading Batman Knightquest, in Detective Comics #668, Tim Drake finds a way to the batcave after Jean Paul as Batman seals other entrances (including the one Tim build under his house), he (Robin) says, "Funny. This is how I got this job. I found my own way into the batcave". As I remember, it's not mentioned in "A Lonely place of dying" that he finds his own way into the batcave, he even express surprise as Dick and Alfred are showing him the cave.

Does he have another origin which includes him finding his own way into the cave or maybe he is simply talking about that time he planned a entrance way to the batcave from his own home (the one who was also shut by Paul)? Anyone care to explain? Thanks!

Nah you're not missing anything. I think its in the third Robin miniseries where Tim finds an underground passageway from the basement(?) of the Drake house to the Cave, or something. Or maybe that happened in Tec? I don't recall at the moment.

Anyway, in this instance, I think it's just that he's being figurative — he found his way into the Batcave the first time with his deduction; and now he's doing it more literally by breaking into JPV's cave.

[charliehustle415]

Oh, boy.

I'm a weird Stephanie Brown fan in that War Games was one of the first things I read, and I came out of it feeling very sympathetic to Steph. However, it's very poorly executed in several ways, despite some really cool concepts. I'll be very curious to see what you think about it.

Also, I would recommend reading this short story before reading Robin #126 - I think it fills in quite a bit of motivation: https://stephaniebrown.fandom.com/wi...d_Magazine_150

Was this story published anywhere?

[millernumber1]

Was this story published anywhere?

Only in Wizard Magazine. It was never republished, which is stupid, since it very much influences Steph's motivations in that issue. And they included the Wizard Magazine story for Hush in the trades.

[charliehustle415]

Only in Wizard Magazine. It was never republished, which is stupid, since it very much influences Steph's motivations in that issue. And they included the Wizard Magazine story for Hush in the trades.

Dang, that sucks. I always wonder why publisher do this

[Wrestler]

Earlier in this thread on page one I think I make some argument in favor of War Games... it's not the best, but it does achieve a feeling of epicness and really pushes Bruce to the lowest of lowly low points, and a lot of the blame is his, mainly indirectly but also very directly. I think it's an interesting story especially in the larger context of this specific universe for that reason.



Nah you're not missing anything. I think its in the third Robin miniseries where Tim finds an underground passageway from the basement(?) of the Drake house to the Cave, or something. Or maybe that happened in Tec? I don't recall at the moment.

Anyway, in this instance, I think it's just that he's being figurative — he found his way into the Batcave the first time with his deduction; and now he's doing it more literally by breaking into JPV's cave.

Thanks for the response. It's being a pleasure going all in in the Knightfall saga (it's the first time I'm reading as I've said earlier here in this thread that I was following a chronologically order of the modern era). Even though I found the first part of the saga better (Knightfall), Knightquest is also being great (I'm at the Shadow of the Bat #22 right now).

[Adset]

Finished War Games. It was... ok? Not as bad as thought it was going to be, based on reactions I’ve read over the years. That said, I may have been ignorant all this time regarding some of the WG criticism. I was under the assumption this had big Bat-jerk energy, but I actually found Bruce was a much bigger ******* in Murderer/Fugitive, which I also recently re-read so it was fresh on the mind. Then again, reading this 15+ years after it’s release, perhaps I’m just numb to Bat-jerk in general. Perhaps the way he treated Oracle was more shocking then.

Also, I really miss Oracle.

I did think it was overly long. I probably would have been angrier reading this thing monthly.

I’ve never been a huge Spoiler fan, and I know she’s got a passionate fan base, so perhaps I’m also a bit numb to what happened there.

Of course, the ending — War Crimes — was atrocious. I absolutely cannot buy Leslie doing that. Not for a second. Seems like a grave injustice for such a long-serving/important member of the family.

All in all it definitely wasn’t up to some of the more bombastic Bat crossovers of the 90s/early 00s, but I didn’t think it was any great stain on the mythos. Except for what happened with Leslie.