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  1. #211
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    Remember Last Laugh?

  2. #212
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrestler View Post
    I would definitely put Legacy above Contagion and Cataclysm, these two in the same level, actually I'd rank Cataclysm a little bit highter than Contagion, but that mistake they did with quakemaster saying the letter B ("Burn Gothan(...)") right in the beginning of the story annoyed me big time, especially when this is the whole point how Robin found out who Quakemaster was after all.
    I didn't notice the mistake, so it didn't bother me.
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  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I didn't notice the mistake, so it didn't bother me.
    At first, me neither. Then I don't remember why I was looking at it again and noticed it, I couldn't believe how they were so careless with an important part of the story.

  4. #214
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    Reading NML, in one of its editions Otis Flanegan meets with Mr. Feeeze and says the last time he saw him was in Blackgate.

    I can't remember once seeing Freeze in Blackgate, any of you guys remember it?

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrestler View Post
    Reading NML, in one of its editions Otis Flanegan meets with Mr. Feeeze and says the last time he saw him was in Blackgate.

    I can't remember once seeing Freeze in Blackgate, any of you guys remember it?
    I don’t remember it either, but doesn’t Freeze’s NML appearances come from early enough after the Heart Of Ice reintroduction that he was still kind of “new” in lining up with the now recognizable form? I know the old “Mr. Zero” design and portrayal still showed up in Robin: Joker’s Wild in 1991, and I know it had to wait until the Heart of Ice version before he relay became the guy we know and his profile really rose again.

    He might have made one of the earlier, pre-Heart of Ice appearances in Blackgate.

    On another note, I’m curious about when the Post-Crisis Huntress gained Batman’s ire. I know it wa as fixture of the period, but I really want to know what exactly was the inciting incident. Anybody know?
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  6. #216
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    IOn another note, I’m curious about when the Post-Crisis Huntress gained Batman’s ire. I know it wa as fixture of the period, but I really want to know what exactly was the inciting incident. Anybody know?
    I just assumed it was because he disagreed with how she generally operated, either that or it was from those Greg Rucka Huntress mini-series.

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I just assumed it was because he disagreed with how she generally operated, either that or it was from those Greg Rucka Huntress mini-series.
    Nah, Rucka's mini was after NML where they were already at odds. Robin III (before Knightfall!) includes Dick telling Tim that Bruce won't like him teaming up with her. There was a 'Tec arc pre-Knightfall w/her in it (haven't read, just seen the covers). Maybe there?
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  8. #218
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    Yeah, I didn’t think there was any specific incident or meet-up point... unless it was an element of her first introduction as a Helena Bertinelli instead of Helena Wayne.

    Anyway, I found the “Everyone Loves the Drake” podcast; it’s a Tim Drake fancast, and it’s connected to a family of podcasts that will apparently feature Azrael as well. One of the episodes they had focused on the “War of the Dragons” mini-crossover between Detective and Robin where King Snake gets overthrown. Anybody got any similar “mini-crossovers” they like?
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  9. #219

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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    On another note, I’m curious about when the Post-Crisis Huntress gained Batman’s ire. I know it wa as fixture of the period, but I really want to know what exactly was the inciting incident. Anybody know?
    Quote Originally Posted by bob.schoonover View Post
    There was a 'Tec arc pre-Knightfall w/her in it (haven't read, just seen the covers). Maybe there?
    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    Yeah, I didn’t think there was any specific incident or meet-up point... unless it was an element of her first introduction as a Helena Bertinelli instead of Helena Wayne.

    Anyway, I found the “Everyone Loves the Drake” podcast; it’s a Tim Drake fancast, and it’s connected to a family of podcasts that will apparently feature Azrael as well. One of the episodes they had focused on the “War of the Dragons” mini-crossover between Detective and Robin where King Snake gets overthrown. Anybody got any similar “mini-crossovers” they like?
    I think the Detective Comics arc pre-Knightfall (#652-653) is definitely the "inciting incident" you're looking for. I believe this two-parter was the first time Chuck Dixon wrote Huntress, and then Robin III: Cry of the Huntress immediately followed. It's been a while since I read these issues, but I recall Huntress basically caused the death of a terrorist in the process of stopping a bombing. Batman got on her case for not using a nonlethal alternative, and she was unapologetic.

    Also, not really a "mini crossover" exactly, but I really enjoyed the mayoral election subplot that ran thru the bat books in 1995/1996, leading up to Contagion. I thought it was very well coordinated between Moench, Dixon, and Grant.
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  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    I don’t remember it either, but doesn’t Freeze’s NML appearances come from early enough after the Heart Of Ice reintroduction that he was still kind of “new” in lining up with the now recognizable form? I know the old “Mr. Zero” design and portrayal still showed up in Robin: Joker’s Wild in 1991, and I know it had to wait until the Heart of Ice version before he relay became the guy we know and his profile really rose again.

    He might have made one of the earlier, pre-Heart of Ice appearances in Blackgate.

    On another note, I’m curious about when the Post-Crisis Huntress gained Batman’s ire. I know it wa as fixture of the period, but I really want to know what exactly was the inciting incident. Anybody know?
    I've identified the time Freeze was in Blackgate. Detective Comics #670 Cold Cases, Azbat almost kills Freeze before Montoya stops him, they arrest Freeze, since Arkham is still destroyed in the Knightquest Saga, the obvious thing to have happened is they arrest him in Blackgate in some special cold cell made for him.

  11. #221
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    Finally finish my reading of NML, one of the things that caught my attention was the fact that Barbara lives in that apartment with the clocktower right upstairs. They always show Jim in her apartment, but never on the clocktower room.

    I know he doesn't know about the fact that she is Oracle, but doesn't he know that she has all those computers right upstairs in the clocktower room?

  12. #222

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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    Y
    Anyway, I found the “Everyone Loves the Drake” podcast; it’s a Tim Drake fancast, and it’s connected to a family of podcasts that will apparently feature Azrael as well. One of the episodes they had focused on the “War of the Dragons” mini-crossover between Detective and Robin where King Snake gets overthrown. Anybody got any similar “mini-crossovers” they like?
    I enjoyed "The Penguin Affair" from Batman # 448-449 & Detective # 615, even though it was clear that it was a logistical challenge having the two main writers at the time be on separate continents.
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  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco Loco View Post
    I enjoyed "The Penguin Affair" from Batman # 448-449 & Detective # 615, even though it was clear that it was a logistical challenge having the two main writers at the time be on separate continents.
    The logistical challenge part is always kind of funny when it comes to stuff like this, and sometimes hoses when a stable of writers are cohesive and when they’re not.

    On another note, I was flipping through my No Man’s Land TPB, and ran across that issue (Batman: No Man’s Land #0) where Bruce is in self-imposed exile at the start, seeming to be in denial and spending his time at a Monaco casino before letting some thugs beat him up due to his guilty conscience... before a meeting with Talia sees him recommit to returning to Gotham.

    The thing here is... I actually *do* love the idea of Talia becoming “the ex from hell” as Damian’s mother, and being the leader of Leviathan and all that.

    But this issue and her appearance here really makes me think that we missed out on something delicious with the combination of Death and the Maidens trying to make Talia more outright evil by brainwashing, and then Morrison writing her as though she were always blindingly obviously evil.

    The fact she was a loyal servant to her dad makes her own villainy understandable in concept, but this scene where she seems to admire Bruce for his heroism, has broken with her father, and leaves him saying she “won’t wait for ever” feels like it would be a perfect set-up for her growing more bluntly evil in a more organic way and ratcheting up some heartache for her fall in hindsight. I’m a Bruce and Selina fan all the way... but I really do think a more nuanced and complex arc for Talia and Bruce would have been of immense benefit to the franchise.
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  14. #224
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    The logistical challenge part is always kind of funny when it comes to stuff like this, and sometimes hoses when a stable of writers are cohesive and when they’re not.

    On another note, I was flipping through my No Man’s Land TPB, and ran across that issue (Batman: No Man’s Land #0) where Bruce is in self-imposed exile at the start, seeming to be in denial and spending his time at a Monaco casino before letting some thugs beat him up due to his guilty conscience... before a meeting with Talia sees him recommit to returning to Gotham.

    The thing here is... I actually *do* love the idea of Talia becoming “the ex from hell” as Damian’s mother, and being the leader of Leviathan and all that.

    But this issue and her appearance here really makes me think that we missed out on something delicious with the combination of Death and the Maidens trying to make Talia more outright evil by brainwashing, and then Morrison writing her as though she were always blindingly obviously evil.

    The fact she was a loyal servant to her dad makes her own villainy understandable in concept, but this scene where she seems to admire Bruce for his heroism, has broken with her father, and leaves him saying she “won’t wait for ever” feels like it would be a perfect set-up for her growing more bluntly evil in a more organic way and ratcheting up some heartache for her fall in hindsight. I’m a Bruce and Selina fan all the way... but I really do think a more nuanced and complex arc for Talia and Bruce would have been of immense benefit to the franchise.
    I have no real attachment to Talia, though I don't hate her. I do think Morrison's work on her had no real foundation, and it would have been nice to see someone actually build that up.
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  15. #225
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    So I'm finally getting around to some of the lead-in stuff to Knightfall that I've never read before.

    Read Sword of Azrael for the first time and now I'm in the stretch of BATMAN/TEC where Bruce is first feeling overwhelmed and sick.

    Honestly, it's kind of funny, I expected a much slower burn, but the stuff Batman goes through in the pre-Knightfall stretch might actually be worse than what follows. The level of blood loss is so ridiculous it almost slips into parody. (And given Dixon's "the General" arc, I'm not entirely sure he wasn't going for parody.) I can suspend disbelief through most of Knightfall...but some of these issues, I think there's no way Batman should be alive, even by comic book standards!
    Last edited by David Walton; 06-09-2020 at 01:48 PM.

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