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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBarnhill View Post
    So I’m getting into Catwoman now. What volume should I start with? I’m hearing great things about Vol 5 and 3 but which do I need to truly understand her?
    Depends on what you mean by understand. But to me, Brubaker's and Cooke's run haven't been surpassed yet. The stories are collected in Trail of the Catwoman and No Easy Way Down. Catwoman—A Celebration of 75 Years should give you a good historical overview of her development.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  2. #32
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Depends on what you mean by understand. But to me, Brubaker's and Cooke's run haven't been surpassed yet. The stories are collected in Trail of the Catwoman and No Easy Way Down. Catwoman—A Celebration of 75 Years should give you a good historical overview of her development.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but Brubaker's run continues from the last run or some event where she pretended to have died? Do we need that or does the story explain it enough?

    The previous run was the Jim Balent run right...

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but Brubaker's run continues from the last run or some event where she pretended to have died? Do we need that or does the story explain it enough?

    The previous run was the Jim Balent run right...
    Brubaker's run drops in on the middle of the action, but I followed along easily enough. He did a good job of introducing context as needed.

    But it's not a story for readers who expect to be spoon-fed. It requires active reading and engagement.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  4. #34
    Fantastic Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBarnhill View Post
    So I’m getting into Catwoman now. What volume should I start with? I’m hearing great things about Vol 5 and 3 but which do I need to truly understand her?
    If you want understand what kind of character is Catwoman now, I suggest you to start from the mini Catwoman of 1989, which is a sort of Catwoman Year One, then read the stories "Heat" (Batman; Legends of the Dark Knight 46/49), "Terror" (Batman; Legends of the Dark Knight 137/141), "The long Halloween", "When in Rome" and "Dark Victory", even if those stories (except "When in Rome") are more Batman stories, because her character was created to be both a foe than a love interest for Batman, so their relationship has had a very important role in her definition. Then I think you should read the Brubaker's run (Catwoman 1 of January 2002), because I think that run is the basis of the contemporary Catwoman but I haven't still read those books, so I can be wrong; even if I don't think so.


    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but Brubaker's run continues from the last run or some event where she pretended to have died? Do we need that or does the story explain it enough?

    The previous run was the Jim Balent run right...
    Yes: the Brubaker's run start from "Sam Bradley: Trial of the Catwoman" (story published in appendix of Detective Comics 759/762 since August 2001), which link the events of Catwoman 91 (July 2001) with the first issue of Brubaker's Catwoman.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Same question as to the other threads. Have there been a weird... or character development reset of Catwoman before New 52? The early New 52 one is a definite reset but before that?

    Catwoman's character is very recognizable so I feel like it's hard to get her wrong.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Depends on what you mean by understand. But to me, Brubaker's and Cooke's run haven't been surpassed yet. The stories are collected in Trail of the Catwoman and No Easy Way Down. Catwoman—A Celebration of 75 Years should give you a good historical overview of her development.
    Meaning what defines her now. She’s had numerous interpretations and I kinda prefer the morally gray version as opposed to the villainess one. If Brubaker’s as good as you say, then I guess I could start with that.

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBarnhill View Post
    Meaning what defines her now. She’s had numerous interpretations and I kinda prefer the morally gray version as opposed to the villainess one. If Brubaker’s as good as you say, then I guess I could start with that.
    Brubaker's Catwoman is definitely morally gray. Some of the stories (like Joyride) are explicitly questioning Batman's morals.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  8. #38
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Brubaker's Catwoman is definitely morally gray. Some of the stories (like Joyride) are explicitly questioning Batman's morals.
    Brubaker catwoman and Gotham by gaslight catwoman are my favorite takes on Selina. Look at those Matt Reeves. Stay healthy, guys

  9. #39
    Elektra Natchios vitaminbee's Avatar
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    Brubaker's Catwoman/Selina is probably my favorite ever. Selina's Big Score by Darwyn Cooke is also really great, but it's more of a Selina story than a Catwoman one... but an amazing one at that. Would make for a great film/DCAU DTV film.
    Last edited by vitaminbee; 03-24-2020 at 01:21 AM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Same question as to the other threads. Have there been a weird... or character development reset of Catwoman before New 52? The early New 52 one is a definite reset but before that?

    Catwoman's character is very recognizable so I feel like it's hard to get her wrong.
    I wouldn’t say there was a reset right before the New 52; Selina was appearing pretty regularly as Batman’s ally and Bruce’s most common love interest, even with her role in Gotham City Sirens.

    Selina did have a pretty hard reset at the very beginning of Post-Crisis, when things were still vague about Batman’s timeline. She was kidnapped by Joker and brainwashed from a Bat-ally into a villain again, and this was when she was still wearing the dress and cape costume. That reset got further reset by Year One changing everything up again and trying to refocus her as a thief first and foremost, instead of being an outright supervillain.
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  11. #41
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vitaminbee View Post
    Brubaker's Catwoman/Selina is probably my favorite ever. Selina's Big Score by Darwyn Cooke is also really great, but it's more of a Selina story than a Catwoman one... but an amazing one at that. Would make for a great film/DCAU DTV film.
    Darwyn Cooke drew Lee Marvin.... that's another cool thing about Big Score

  12. #42
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    Well, I just got done reading Brubaker’s run and I can tell you... my life has been a lie. There hasn’t been a single representation of The Cat that’s ever been faithful to this. Even the Arkham games and Nolan’s don’t come close, and those are probably the closest they’ve ever gotten to getting her right. And I know I can’t judge the versions before this run but I don’t think I can see Returns or TAS without ever comparing them to what Brubaker accomplished, especially not Pfeiffer’s, who now I’m beginning to suspect is highly overrated.

    I’m hoping for Reeves to finally end the streak and give us the definitive Catwoman on the screen. I’m not a fan of the Zoe Kravitz casting since she’s way too short but let’s hope I’m wrong.

  13. #43
    Fantastic Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    About the Catwoman of Batman TAS' what can we say? Neither the authors of the cartoons loved that character, because the WB imposed them to write her in that way! In fact when they relaunched the franchise with "The new Batman adventures", they changed everything about her.
    About the Burton's Catwoman I can say in my humble opinion the character is afflicted by the interpretation that Burton himself give to the entire franchise: he tried to conjugate the absurdity and the innocence of the TV show of 1966 with his typical darkness and maturity, so I don't like anything about those movies.
    About Brubaker's Catwoman I can't say very much, because having read the stories I suggested it seems to me Brubaker took advantage from the work started in the late eighties with the Selina's brainwash happened in Detective Comics 569 of 1986.
    Do you want the "definitive Catwoman on screen"? I suggest you the Catwoman of the Talltale game about Batman; but I am biased about that: not only they wrote the character and her relationship with Bruce/Batman exactly like I always thought is should be written, but also the way how both found out their respective secret identities was exactly the right one to me.

  14. #44
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Is Catwoman appearing sometimes with dark skin due to Halle Berry? One of the few times people aren’t angry when they show her with darker skin.
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    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 03-28-2020 at 10:49 AM.

  15. #45
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Is Catwoman appearing sometimes with dark skin due to Halle Berry? One of the few times people aren’t angry when they despite her this way.

    24A6C709-F7F5-4E22-8CE7-DD27B9EEC37F.jpg
    There was also a black Catwoman in a very film noir AU story.

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