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  1. #16
    Spectacular Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I think DC and Tom King put Jones in an unenviable situation. She was given a specific situation by King, and was then required to send back Selina per his requirements. All while Selina was in a very fraught personal state. For a one- or twoshot, it's not much to say about, but Jones got it as an ongoing, and without any possibility to interpret or develop the character based on her own vision.

    I think Jones can be added to the list of female writers hobbled by DC.
    In my humble opinion Jones hobbled Jones: even if her run is technically well written (like the King's Batman), it is so slowly placed to became boring and to seem without any clear direction: we are at the ninenteenth issue and we are still reading about the first and only villain meet by Catwoman. Not only but while King was writing a great saga about Batman (even if I didn't liked it) and he often used Catwoman in his stories, Jones choose to keep Selina away from Batman, like if her Catwoman was placed in alternative universe, while she could use the King's stories like a scenario for the Catwoman ones. For example, while King was telling what was happening to Batman, why not to use Catwoman to tell what was happening to Gotham, while Batman was every day less able to fight against the criminality of Gotham?
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  2. #17
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    I disagree there. This series spun out of Kings run, and benefited from the increased profile at the time. While Jones got a good 20 issues to introduce herself to the a bigger DC audience by the series being a spin off. I actually think Catwoman has been one of the few times they have done a good job in helping a relatively new female creators with a solid lead in. I feel like I’m a good example of that. What attracted to me to the book wasn’t Jones, as I didn’t know who she was honestly, but now I do. I’m definitely more inclined to pick up more of her work now. DC got me to pick up a book I otherwise wouldn’t have, cause while I like Catwoman her last series seemed like a dismissed mess. It just seemed there. While at the same time introduced me to a creator completely off my radar.
    Thanks for giving that additional perspective: neither fiction nor reality is seldom reducable to a single dimension.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham citizen View Post
    In my humble opinion Jones hobbled Jones: even if her run is technically well written (like the King's Batman), it is so slowly placed to became boring and to seem without any clear direction: we are at the ninenteenth issue and we are still reading about the first and only villain meet by Catwoman. Not only but while King was writing a great saga about Batman (even if I didn't liked it) and he often used Catwoman in his stories, Jones choose to keep Selina away from Batman, like if her Catwoman was placed in alternative universe, while she could use the King's stories like a scenario for the Catwoman ones. For example, while King was telling what was happening to Batman, why not to use Catwoman to tell what was happening to Gotham, while Batman was every day less able to fight against the criminality of Gotham?
    You might be right about that; we don't know how the inner workings were at DC, or the creative interaction between King and Jones. That said, I believe that Jones's Catwoman was entirely written under the shadow of King's Batman: it was she who had to adapt to King's plot and decisions.

    In a way, the only way for Jones to have some creative freedom was to remove her Catwoman entirely from Batman and Gotham. And note also that she doesn't have much writing experience. I think she has good instincts for story, but this was not a good spot to be placed in for a debut.
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  3. #18
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    I was on another board talking about Zoe Kravitz playing Catwoman in the new Batman movie, and this occurred to me:

    Okay, since Kravitz herself has said this film would be more “grounded”, and that could mean anything from grounded in terms of tech, skills, resources, to getting the human story down right and letting the usual fantastic elements play out around that...

    ...Do you guys think we’ll actually get Catwoman with the whip again?

    I mean, it’s one of the older “overhyped” tool-as-a-weapon things from Hollywood: no one doubts it can cause pain, and if used brutally enough, could eventually kill. So it’s weaponry usage isn’t really in doubt. But the “instant knot” and pseudo-grappling hook part, as well as it’s feasible replacement by other, more practical weapons is probably behind adaptations like Telltale and the DK Trilogy leaving it out.

    Personally, I *do* want it back...

    ...But I kind of want it either supplemented by some other gear for its purposes, or if it’s not going to be there, replaced by something that can do most of its classic functions.

    Back in the 90’s, Chuck Dixon gave her a “Cat’s Paw” grappling hook for a few issues... and I have this idea that a fun way to play into Batman and Catwoman’s chemistry would be of she’d stolen a grappling gun/Batclaw gadget from him and used that herself. Just the idea of her having stolen something from Batman and using it as both a trophy and a tool appeals to me.

    Plus, you could have her use the extended grappling hook and line as a weapon, like a “flying claw” rope dart or meteor hammer like this:

    ...and if they for some reason did want to replace the whip entirely, it’s not like people can’t use the rope dart for the kind of, *ahem*, “displays of athletic grace” that could match the *connotations* of the whip.
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  4. #19
    Elektra Natchios vitaminbee's Avatar
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    I would enjoy that being incorporated. I’m hoping they have her nails in her gloves though. I honestly just want a rooftop chase between Batman and Catwoman in the new film.

  5. #20
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    What type f claws would you go for? The Burton style grotesque thumbtack-needle combo? Something more mundane like the ninja shuko located in the palm? The BTAS-style golden fingernails of doom? Maybe some large, fearsome looking Injustice-style talons? Or something new?

    I mean, I thought about some “folding talons” that would look like the Injustice claws... until she wanted to use her regular fingers or punch someone, when they’d fold back over her knuckles instead of retracting, so she’d have sharpened bronze knuckles.
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  6. #21
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I honestly always forget she didn't have the whip in the Nolan films.

  7. #22
    All-New Member Chuffed's Avatar
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    Just want to toss in my thumbs up 8). I was late to the party, but I'm scraping together whatever back issues I can get my hands on. I loved Joelle Jones' run (mostly the issues she handled the art), and I'm totally puting this one on the pull list with the new team.
    Last edited by Chuffed; 01-21-2020 at 08:10 AM.

  8. #23
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    I am curious how Tynion is going to write Bruce/Selina's relationship. so far..I like that he is done...I like their dialogue....it comes off like they are couple but without the poetic cheesiness...no "Bat", "Cat" crap either .............Selina operating equipment alone in the batcave.............yeah...she's a member of the Bat-family now
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  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Bumping because Selina had a really good moment in today's Batman issue, recommend you guys check it out. I think Tynion gets her character perfectly right now.

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