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  1. #46
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I don't mind so much. I find it interesting this is one of the few characters that have their race changed and not many are angry.

  2. #47
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I don't mind so much. I find it interesting this is one of the few characters that have their race changed and not many are angry.
    Catwoman's been race changed since the 60s and well received. It's the one character that people can't protest coz there's really no grounds for it.

  3. #48
    Death becomes you Osiris-Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Is Catwoman appearing sometimes with dark skin due to Halle Berry? One of the few times people aren’t angry when they show her with darker skin.
    Catwoman was a black woman, Eartha Kitt, way back in the 1960s. I think they would rather forget the Halle Berry version. I think it is more the trend to race swap characters, like Jimmy Olson
    on the Supergirl TV show, or now Catwoman in the upcoming Batman movie. (Not that there is anything wrong with that) I think this Catwoman actually looks more like Eartha Kitt than Halle Berry.


  4. #49
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    True. I almost forget about her since I thought they were going for Halley Berr than again looking at her hair it's more Kitt. I mean with Tv show people are more forgiving. It's just at times Race swap can sometimes be viewed as bad.


  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    True. I almost forget about her since I thought they were going for Halley Berr than again looking at her hair it's more Kitt. I mean with Tv show people are more forgiving. It's just at times Race swap can sometimes be viewed as bad.


    more like half-race swapping has been done

    Eartha Kitt had a European-American father and African American/Native American mother.
    Haille Berry has an African American father and European American mother
    Both of Zoe Kravitz's parents' have Ashkenazi Jewish parents and African American parents. Lenny Kravitz is the son of an Ashkenazi Jewish man and African American woman. Lisa Bonet is the daughter of an African American man and Ashkenazi Jewish woman



    Since 2015, I do not use terms, white and black for race. They are social constructs created out of racism and have led to even more racism. Africa is extremely multiethnic. There are thousands of ethnic groups in Africa including over 250 in Nigeria alone. There is a lot of diversity on the other continents too. For example, there are over 50 ethnic groups in China. Samuel Morton came up with the classifications based on B.S. craniometry. He believes that the race classifications had hierarchy with Caucasoid at the top and Negroid at the bottom. There is not any scientific basis for the race classifications that are deeply entrenched in society. Theory of Evolution makes it all look ridiculous because all humans started in Africa. Every human being on this planet has African genes.

    The one drop rule is an outdated, racist, and stupid rule which was created to prevent more mixing between "whites" and "non-whites" starting in the 1690s. Of course, race-mixing happened a lot in slavery period with a vast majority of it being from rape. The hypodescent rule was about being ruled inferior for having additional ancestry other than "white". I have always identified as multiracial because that's what I am and have always known with my having a mother that is mostly European. I was always told that my African American father was from New Orleans and that his mother had some French Creole ancestry. After learning about the history of one drop rule, I have a strong disdain for it. I do not believe that it should be enforced nor promoted in any type of way for it be like condoning and supporting the race supremacist policies and the anti-miscegenation laws which have been illegal since June 12, 1967 Loving vs. Virginia Supreme Court ruling.

    There is a lot of denial of the race mixing here in USA to the point that only 2.9 percent identified as multiracial on the 2010 Census. Most African Americans and most Latinos are multiracial. Therefore, the multiracial population has to be far more than 2.9 percent of the population. Most Americans will be multiracial by the end of this 21st Century. Every person is mixed in some kind of way like all of us aren't full Homo Sapiens. We have some Neanderthal, Denisovan, and/or other archaic human in our DNA.

    Lets make no mistake. Even though race is a social construct, racism is real. Racism is here in USA. It is one of the Three Evils of Society along with Poverty and Militarism that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. believed were strongly connected to each other and deeply entrenched in American society. USA is a nation of great diversity, but it is also a nation of great discord. Diversity is not the problem. It is the intolerance of diversity that is the problem. I truly believe that diversity can be a strength if we can find common ground through our shared humanity. DNA-wise, we humans are over 99 percent alike



    On the 2020 Census,
    White is an option for race, and it includes Egyptian!!!
    Black or African American is an option for race.

    They should have listed Black.
    African American is not a race.
    African Americans are mainly a people of predominantly African ancestry with some European and Amerindian ancestries


    This is what I am putting down for the 2020 Census in regards to race, origin
    Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish origin?
    Yes, Puerto Rican

    race:
    White [Portuguese,English,Scottish,Irish,Ashkenazi Jewish (from Romania,Latvia),German,French,Swiss,Spanish,Welsh, Dutch]

    Black or African American [unknown African tribes brought in the Transatlantic slave trade]

    American Indian[Taino, unknown American Indian tribes]


    At genome companies, I average out at 52 percent SubSaharan African, 46 percent European, and 2 percent Amerindian
    A vast majority of my SubSaharan African comes from my father, a vast majority of my European comes from my mother, and the Amerindian is evenly split between my parents.
    My mother done testing at genome companies.
    She averages out at 86 percent European, 12 percent SubSaharan African, and 2 percent Amerindian.

    Genealogically,
    My Portuguese,Spanish,Ashkenazi Jewish,Scottish,German,Dutch,Irish,Welsh,Swiss,Tai no,most of my English, and a small portion of my unknown African tribes comes from my mother.
    My French, unknown American Indian tribes, and most of my unknown African tribes come from my father.
    Last edited by Starrius; 03-29-2020 at 06:51 AM.
    I created a thread about Dick Grayson/Nightwing and Koriand'r/Starfire.
    It is to acknowledge and honor their iconic and popular relationship.
    https://comicvine.gamespot.com/teen-...rfire-1975639/

    I created a fan page about Peter Parker/Spider-Man and Mary Jane Watson.
    This page is for all the Spider-Marriage fans.
    http://www.facebook.com/SpiderManMaryJane/

  6. #51
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    All of that true, but people can't tell the difference at a glance. So for a lot of people, both Eartha and Halle are just "black"
    Heck. I didn't even know that some black women don't consider Halle good enough because she's mixed and considered pretty by the caucasian standard. It's a "save" black for white people's taste. The level of black they want for representation is Lupita Nyong'o or ... who's Starfire actress? Very black, thick lips, the type of women that don't have a trace of classic European beauty that a lot of people are used to.

  7. #52
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Meanwhile, Sejic's ideas around the Harleen stories continue to grow. He hadn't spoken much about Catwoman, earlier, but now:

    plan is

    harleen arc1

    isley

    harleen arc 2

    selina

    harleen arc 3

    sirens
    He also posted a concept image of Catwoman and Bane:

    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  8. #53
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Meanwhile, Sejic's ideas around the Harleen stories continue to grow. He hadn't spoken much about Catwoman, earlier, but now:



    He also posted a concept image of Catwoman and Bane:

    Interesting costume design. Looks like Sejic is trying to go for Selina's modern catsuit in her purple colors. I'm not sure if it quite works though...

    I like the gold belt though .

  9. #54
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    https://www.cbr.com/batman-catwoman-...y-special/amp/ I'm so excited for this Selina is pregnant with Bruce's baby

  10. #55

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    So when is Catwoman going to be a member of the Justice League? You'd think it would have happened by now.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Interesting costume design. Looks like Sejic is trying to go for Selina's modern catsuit in her purple colors. I'm not sure if it quite works though...

    I like the gold belt though .
    yeah,i'm still at the working things out stage of designing. at this point i't more or less throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks XD

  12. #57
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebezial View Post
    yeah,i'm still at the working things out stage of designing. at this point i't more or less throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks XD
    Sometimes that's the funnest part about designing, I imagine .

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starrius View Post
    more like half-race swapping has been done

    Eartha Kitt had a European-American father and African American/Native American mother.
    Haille Berry has an African American father and European American mother
    Both of Zoe Kravitz's parents' have Ashkenazi Jewish parents and African American parents. Lenny Kravitz is the son of an Ashkenazi Jewish man and African American woman. Lisa Bonet is the daughter of an African American man and Ashkenazi Jewish woman



    Since 2015, I do not use terms, white and black for race. They are social constructs created out of racism and have led to even more racism. Africa is extremely multiethnic. There are thousands of ethnic groups in Africa including over 250 in Nigeria alone. There is a lot of diversity on the other continents too. For example, there are over 50 ethnic groups in China. Samuel Morton came up with the classifications based on B.S. craniometry. He believes that the race classifications had hierarchy with Caucasoid at the top and Negroid at the bottom. There is not any scientific basis for the race classifications that are deeply entrenched in society. Theory of Evolution makes it all look ridiculous because all humans started in Africa. Every human being on this planet has African genes.

    The one drop rule is an outdated, racist, and stupid rule which was created to prevent more mixing between "whites" and "non-whites" starting in the 1690s. Of course, race-mixing happened a lot in slavery period with a vast majority of it being from rape. The hypodescent rule was about being ruled inferior for having additional ancestry other than "white". I have always identified as multiracial because that's what I am and have always known with my having a mother that is mostly European. I was always told that my African American father was from New Orleans and that his mother had some French Creole ancestry. After learning about the history of one drop rule, I have a strong disdain for it. I do not believe that it should be enforced nor promoted in any type of way for it be like condoning and supporting the race supremacist policies and the anti-miscegenation laws which have been illegal since June 12, 1967 Loving vs. Virginia Supreme Court ruling.

    There is a lot of denial of the race mixing here in USA to the point that only 2.9 percent identified as multiracial on the 2010 Census. Most African Americans and most Latinos are multiracial. Therefore, the multiracial population has to be far more than 2.9 percent of the population. Most Americans will be multiracial by the end of this 21st Century. Every person is mixed in some kind of way like all of us aren't full Homo Sapiens. We have some Neanderthal, Denisovan, and/or other archaic human in our DNA.

    Lets make no mistake. Even though race is a social construct, racism is real. Racism is here in USA. It is one of the Three Evils of Society along with Poverty and Militarism that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. believed were strongly connected to each other and deeply entrenched in American society. USA is a nation of great diversity, but it is also a nation of great discord. Diversity is not the problem. It is the intolerance of diversity that is the problem. I truly believe that diversity can be a strength if we can find common ground through our shared humanity. DNA-wise, we humans are over 99 percent alike



    On the 2020 Census,
    White is an option for race, and it includes Egyptian!!!
    Black or African American is an option for race.

    They should have listed Black.
    African American is not a race.
    African Americans are mainly a people of predominantly African ancestry with some European and Amerindian ancestries


    This is what I am putting down for the 2020 Census in regards to race, origin
    Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish origin?
    Yes, Puerto Rican

    race:
    White [Portuguese,English,Scottish,Irish,Ashkenazi Jewish (from Romania,Latvia),German,French,Swiss,Spanish,Welsh, Dutch]

    Black or African American [unknown African tribes brought in the Transatlantic slave trade]

    American Indian[Taino, unknown American Indian tribes]


    At genome companies, I average out at 52 percent SubSaharan African, 46 percent European, and 2 percent Amerindian
    A vast majority of my SubSaharan African comes from my father, a vast majority of my European comes from my mother, and the Amerindian is evenly split between my parents.
    My mother done testing at genome companies.
    She averages out at 86 percent European, 12 percent SubSaharan African, and 2 percent Amerindian.

    Genealogically,
    My Portuguese,Spanish,Ashkenazi Jewish,Scottish,German,Dutch,Irish,Welsh,Swiss,Tai no,most of my English, and a small portion of my unknown African tribes comes from my mother.
    My French, unknown American Indian tribes, and most of my unknown African tribes come from my father.
    This was ridiculous. Why is race so important all of a sudden for the character? I can get why Bruce Wayne has to be a WASP. Bill Finger stated that he wanted someone of a very privileged background to feel like he should be the protector of the weak, the people who don’t feel like they need him. Catwoman isn’t tied to any kind of color. Heck, didn’t Frank Miller have her to be African-American in Year One?

  14. #59
    Incredible Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBarnhill View Post
    This was ridiculous. Why is race so important all of a sudden for the character? I can get why Bruce Wayne has to be a WASP. Bill Finger stated that he wanted someone of a very privileged background to feel like he should be the protector of the weak, the people who don’t feel like they need him. Catwoman isn’t tied to any kind of color. Heck, didn’t Frank Miller have her to be African-American in Year One?
    I think the question is wrong because it isn't a matter of race, it is a matter of recognizability of the character: if the readers/audience are used to see a character with certain characteristics, then they will have great issues to associate different characteristics to the same characters; unless there are strong and clear reason to change these characteristics. For example when I saw John Astin (Gomez in the Addams Family) plays Riddler in an episode of the sixties Batman TV show (he was substituting Frank Gorshin), I had and I have very strong issue to associate the face of the new actor to the characters, because the John's faces is totally different from the Frank's one; moreover John didn't even cut his mustache! In my humble opinion it seems a racial issue, because the majority (and the most evident) of this changes are racial and because often the people prefers accuse the other people to be racist, instead to listen what the other people actually say and understand what they are trying to say; often in a very wrong way. For example I am Italian and I hate the fact that some writers started to say that Selina is Italian (if I'm not wrong it happened during the New 52 Catwoman); am I racist against myself? I don't think so.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham citizen View Post
    I think the question is wrong because it isn't a matter of race, it is a matter of recognizability of the character: if the readers/audience are used to see a character with certain characteristics, then they will have great issues to associate different characteristics to the same characters; unless there are strong and clear reason to change these characteristics. For example when I saw John Astin (Gomez in the Addams Family) plays Riddler in an episode of the sixties Batman TV show (he was substituting Frank Gorshin), I had and I have very strong issue to associate the face of the new actor to the characters, because the John's faces is totally different from the Frank's one; moreover John didn't even cut his mustache! In my humble opinion it seems a racial issue, because the majority (and the most evident) of this changes are racial and because often the people prefers accuse the other people to be racist, instead to listen what the other people actually say and understand what they are trying to say; often in a very wrong way. For example I am Italian and I hate the fact that some writers started to say that Selina is Italian (if I'm not wrong it happened during the New 52 Catwoman); am I racist against myself? I don't think so.
    I get what you’re saying but Italian isn’t a race. That’s like saying Irish is a race. We are not victims of marginalization (insert PC Principal joke here).

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