Warren Worthington: (Arch)Angel Appreciation 2020

[CRaymond]

Huh. Are ya trolling our thread and those of us who post in it or are you just making fun of it. I kind of hope that it's both

Actually I think Worthington’s business assets would pair nicely with Frost’s and the two could operate the diplomatic international trade. He’s a gorgeous mutant and perfect spokesman for the White Court brand.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Logan, buddy, I think that this is being blown out of proportion a little. As far as we known, Archangel simply isn't being used because no one wants to use the character, not because of COTA. If a writer wanted to use Archangel and had a good idea for the character, then I doubt that an editor would say no just because Archangel will be making some small appearances in COTA.

And hell, for all we know, there may have been plans to use Archangel in a comic to be published in a later wave of X-comics. We really don't know what was being planned for the character before the Corona virus happened. And, we don't know what still may be being planned, if the virus hasn't thrown off Marvel's publishing plans.

I do agree that it would be nice to see Archangel appear more often.

Just not sure that being in that book is doing him any favors either, and to others this is an appreciation thread, if you don't like Warren then don't post in here...

[Izanami]

Lets face the facts. Warren was/is at his best when he is nothing more than Apocalypse's slave. I know it, you know it, and marvel knows it. That is why he always falls back to Archangel persona after getting "fixed" time after time.

If Warren has any sense he would fall to Apocalypse's feet and beg him to become his horseman again.

Its why his best moment was when he took over from Apocalypse and built his own dynasty. Imagine how different the X-books would have been if Archangel survived the event and became an antagonist for both Wolverine and Cyclops during the schism. It would have been some interesting drama considering the things Logan did behind everyone's back. Would have made WTXM interesting considering the amount of Wolverine worship that book had. I wouldn't have minded if Archangel became a bit of a vigilante or took questionable assignments with certain moral obligations like in X-Force but without the murder part of it. For once I would like to see a version of death or the angel of death not be something associated with evil. The only other I know is Death from sandman. I wouldn't mind a blend of Film Noir, Occult Detective, urban fantasy setting with him in it. Thoughts?

[FIGHT]

That is a scary pic you have Izanami. I guess Angel didnt make the cut to get into the current X-men team. Would be cool to see him doin some hero stuff on the side as Archangel.

I think writers dont know what to do with Warren so he is mia. He would of made a decent captain, but i guess he didnt make the cut. I would like to see what he has been up to besides making babies in the orgy pits.

I still think it would be pretty cool to have him, kid cable, old cable, and Gambit jump Apocalypse and legit kill him for being an *******. Apocalypse gets revived and they have a drink afterwards.

[Thievery]

Warren still wasn’t really Warren in Bunn’s run and whatever he had planned for those sleeper agents, he never got a chance to execute. He was a drone early on and after getting “fixed”, he pretty much disappeared. He was in AXM and UXM but those were far from what I’d consider major roles. Supporting at best. Remove him and not much changes for the overall plots as he wasn’t integral. UXF was the last major story for him

Well, okay, maybe calling his role in AXM and UNX major roles could be a stretch. But, those stories did feel to me as an attempt to restart his Angel/Archangel split personality as his default status quo, as well as his relationship with Psylocke. I think that UXM did more to damage to his relationship with Psylocke. Just my opinions.
His role in AXM may not have been large, but most of the characters weren't. It read to me as though all of the characters were treated roughly equally. The only one you couldn't he substituted was X, and maybe Psylocke.
I thought that Warren received some quality panel time.

Lets face the facts. Warren was/is at his best when he is nothing more than Apocalypse's slave. I know it, you know it, and marvel knows it. That is why he always falls back to Archangel persona after getting "fixed" time after time.

If Warren has any sense he would fall to Apocalypse's feet and beg him to become his horseman again.

Well, Warren's Archangel stories are his only iconic ones. I prefer the Archangel version of Warren for sure. I think that they should just pick one version of Archangel, and go from there. Just keep him as Archangel, and give him some new stories instead of changing him back to boring Angel just so they can do another "Angel looses his mind and joins Apocalypse" story again.
Just my opinion.

Actually I think Worthington’s business assets would pair nicely with Frost’s and the two could operate the diplomatic international trade. He’s a gorgeous mutant and perfect spokesman for the White Court brand.

Sorry, guy/gal. I was just having some fun with you, me, and some other members who post in this thread. Sorry it didn't come across that way. I guess I didn't communicate the joke very well, seeing as others missed it as well. I thought that my use of this was a giveaway that I was joking.
I'll just move along from this failed joke now.
If you like the idea of Warren and Emma working togather, than thank you for sharing. It is something new to talk about in this thread.

Its why his best moment was when he took over from Apocalypse and built his own dynasty. Imagine how different the X-books would have been if Archangel survived the event and became an antagonist for both Wolverine and Cyclops during the schism. It would have been some interesting drama considering the things Logan did behind everyone's back. Would have made WTXM interesting considering the amount of Wolverine worship that book had. I wouldn't have minded if Archangel became a bit of a vigilante or took questionable assignments with certain moral obligations like in X-Force but without the murder part of it. For once I would like to see a version of death or the angel of death not be something associated with evil. The only other I know is Death from sandman. I wouldn't mind a blend of Film Noir, Occult Detective, urban fantasy setting with him in it. Thoughts?

Hey, thanks Izanami!!! We've talked about stuff like this in Angel's various threads over the years, and you just articulated it better for me than I have in all my time talking about it.
So give yourself a big round of applause!

I haven't read Sandman though, so I really don't know how to comment on that part.

And, I think that I still prefer a version of Archangel who is willing to commit murder.

That is a scary pic you have Izanami. I guess Angel didnt make the cut to get into the current X-men team. Would be cool to see him doin some hero stuff on the side as Archangel.

I think writers dont know what to do with Warren so he is mia. He would of made a decent captain, but i guess he didnt make the cut. I would like to see what he has been up to besides making babies in the orgy pits.

I still think it would be pretty cool to have him, kid cable, old cable, and Gambit jump Apocalypse and legit kill him for being an *******. Apocalypse gets revived and they have a drink afterwards.

I'd like to see Archangel appear on panel with Apocalypse on Krakoa as well. We really don't know what Apocalypse thinks of Archangel as Warren once took his job.
It may be that that's a story that Marvel wants to avoid right now. I think that they prefer for A to be the one and only true Apocalypse. But that's just how the current stories read to me. I could easily be wrong.

I like the thought of Archangel, Wolverine, and some of the others ganging up on Apocalypse to kill him. I'm not sure that Warren would want him for a drinking buddy afterwards, though.

[Havok83]

Well, okay, maybe calling his role in AXM and UNX major roles could be a stretch. But, those stories did feel to me as an attempt to restart his Angel/Archangel split personality as his default status quo, as well as his relationship with Psylocke. I think that UXM did more to damage to his relationship with Psylocke. Just my opinions.
His role in AXM may not have been large, but most of the characters weren't. It read to me as though all of the characters were treated roughly equally. The only one you couldn't he substituted was X, and maybe Psylocke.
I thought that Warren received some quality panel time.

.

and thats the problem with Warren as most writers in the past decade dont know what to do with him as the few times he gets focus, its about restarting the Angel/Archangel status quo. Bunn is the only one that seemed like he had plans but as stated, those were cut short before he could do anything. Im open to him taking on a mentorship role bc it would at least be something different and I like the tease we got of that in Next Gen

[K7P5V]

I wouldn't mind a blend of Film Noir, Occult Detective, urban fantasy setting with him in it. Thoughts?

Yeah! Great idea, Izanami. Maybe something similar to Chiaroscuro from Nocenti/Mazzucchelli:

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I'd rather Warren be Archangel without multiple psyches in his head, and the only real damage that was done to his relationship with Psylocke was due to first Remender wanting to push Fantomex and mess Warren's head up with the two psyches thing and then she went off to that alternate reality bit for a time, so they messed with Warren again, Warren needs some time with his head on straight...and it's not like Betsy is the main star in her book anyway, Apocalypse is...

[Thievery]

and thats the problem with Warren as most writers in the past decade dont know what to do with him as the few times he gets focus, its about restarting the Angel/Archangel status quo. Bunn is the only one that seemed like he had plans but as stated, those were cut short before he could do anything. Im open to him taking on a mentorship role bc it would at least be something different and I like the tease we got of that in Next Gen

Yes, I agree with you that making most of Warren's stories over the past several years seemingly being about restoring the Angle/Archangel split personality status quo isn't a good thing. But, those attempts to restore the Angel/Archangel split personality happened in high profile comics like AXM and UXM. That would seem to me to mean that at one point Marvel editors viewed the split personality status quo as being important. That's what I originally meant when I said that Warren had received prominent stories since Uncanny X-Force. Just because I wasn't entirely happy with them, that doesn't mean that Marvel felt that they weren't delivering important stories.

I've repeatedly stated that I would prefer for Marvel to stop trying to use Warren only in stories that reset him to the Angel/Archangel split personality over and over again. It's played out, and I would prefer for Warren to just be left as metal winged Archangel as his default setting. But, if Marvel wants to use the split personality, I'd like them to just set him back to the split personality, leave him there and be done with it. Then use the character in some new stories with the split personality going forward. At this point I would be more than happy to accept that.

I'd rather Warren be Archangel without multiple psyches in his head, and the only real damage that was done to his relationship with Psylocke was due to first Remender wanting to push Fantomex and mess Warren's head up with the two psyches thing and then she went off to that alternate reality bit for a time, so they messed with Warren again, Warren needs some time with his head on straight...and it's not like Betsy is the main star in her book anyway, Apocalypse is...

Logan, buddy, I read the Psylocke/Archangel story in the Disassembled relaunch in Uncanny as putting an end to the Betsy/Archangel relationship. It was pretty damn harsh in my opinion. I'm pretty certain others agree with me that the Betsy/Archangel romance has run it's course. But that's just my opinion. I'm also pretty certain that other readers don't agree with me, and want Psylocke/Archangel back. I've read a lot of posts from members of this forum that say that they want Betsy/Archangel back.

Honestly, I think that your going to get your wish, Logan, and see Archangel and Betsy/Captain Britain in stories togather again. Just be patient. They are both on Krakoa, and they are going to cross paths sooner or later. It just makes sense. Now whether they will be a couple or whether they will just be ex's is what you'll have to wait and see for.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I think that she's in England for most of the time though yeah it could happen and I hope that it does, once they leave the whole dual psyche thing in Warren's head in the past. I don't think that any X-couple that lasted that long and meant that much to the characters will ever truly be over...so W/B could happen again easily if a writer wanted them together...

[Sutekh]

Due to his time as a Champion and Defender, and his high-profile CEO former-playboy-celebrity-eligible-bachelor thing, I feel like Warren is one of the better suited to operate outside of the X-teams, as an Avenger or in a similar role.

Seeing him helping to fund / house a highly mobile team of fast-response heroes to deal with various emergencies (not necessarily super-crime, but perhaps also natural disaster relief and transport, etc.) with other fliers or highly mobile (or rich, or high-profile...) heroes like Falcon, Nighthawk, the Wasp, Songbird, Mach V, Sun Girl, Aero/Melody Guthrie, Stinger, Ant-Man, etc. would be interesting.

I have this image in my head of Warren, Wasp and Nighthawk bickering about who is going to pick up the million-dollar tab on the skycycles / hover transports they are using to transport relief supplies to a fire disaster and Sun Girl muttering to Falcon, 'White people problems...'

[Izanami]

Due to his time as a Champion and Defender, and his high-profile CEO former-playboy-celebrity-eligible-bachelor thing, I feel like Warren is one of the better suited to operate outside of the X-teams, as an Avenger or in a similar role.

Seeing him helping to fund / house a highly mobile team of fast-response heroes to deal with various emergencies (not necessarily super-crime, but perhaps also natural disaster relief and transport, etc.) with other fliers or highly mobile (or rich, or high-profile...) heroes like Falcon, Nighthawk, the Wasp, Songbird, Mach V, Sun Girl, Aero/Melody Guthrie, Stinger, Ant-Man, etc. would be interesting.

I have this image in my head of Warren, Wasp and Nighthawk bickering about who is going to pick up the million-dollar tab on the skycycles / hover transports they are using to transport relief supplies to a fire disaster and Sun Girl muttering to Falcon, 'White people problems...'

I would enjoy seeing an Angela and Archangel one-shot team up in one of the 10 realms. It would be very interesting.

[Izanami]

Yeah! Great idea, Izanami. Maybe something similar to Chiaroscuro from Nocenti/Mazzucchelli

There is an animated series that I am familiar with called Mononoke does something similar to the story written by Nocenti. Every arc centers on complete strangers with the only constant being the mysterious medical seller tying it all together. Would be a nice experimental miniseries with Warren and see if certain genres flesh him out more.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Didn't the teen Warren already meet Angela and hit on her...not sure that grown up Warren would do the same...besides which I'd rather see he and Betsy have a long overdo talk first...and how he feels about Apocalypse being around and such...that he'd tell her not to trust Apocalypse, no matter what...

[Thievery]

Actually I think Worthington’s business assets would pair nicely with Frost’s and the two could operate the diplomatic international trade. He’s a gorgeous mutant and perfect spokesman for the White Court brand.

Sorry, CRaymond. I responded to this in post 95 of this thread and left some of what I was going to say out of that post.

Why do you think that Emma would pick Warren out for any kind of role like this? Archangel has never really proven all that successful at running his company. The only time that I can recall him serving as a successful spokesman was during the Casey run on Uncanny. I honestly think that Emma would feel that she could do better than just settling for Archangel. I really cant picture her betting her trade organization on a very likely to lose horse like Archangel. She's already dragging her brother around.

I'm not criticizing you or your idea. I'm just interested in what you think about this.

I guess that it would be knew for Warren, though. He's never really liked the Hellfire club or been shown to be interested in it.