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  1. #196
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    That was more imho due to the writers not liking one or both of the characters and not allowing them to flourish alongside or over Scott and Jean...something that greatly hindered Alex/Lorna, another of my favorite couples...

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    That was more imho due to the writers not liking one or both of the characters and not allowing them to flourish alongside or over Scott and Jean...something that greatly hindered Alex/Lorna, another of my favorite couples...
    I wouldn't say Jean and Scott had many great stories after their wedding and The Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix either. They were just there but there was nothing really done with them otherwise. Kelly and Seagle wanted to do a whole story about Jean becoming Phoenix but not turning dark for once and possibly introduce 616 Rachel Summers as a baby, but they weren't allowed to use Scott and Jean and were forced to write them off into retirement.

    I can't really get behind Alex and Lorna anymore. I'm finding that couple almost as problematic as Scott/Jean if not worse in some respects. And much like Scott, Alex was a terrible boyfriend in the Claremont era and then again in the 2000s. What he did to Lorna with Annie was just as bad as what Scott did to Jean in Morrison's run. I agree with Lorna that Summers brothers should be avoided entirely and I know they'll be reunited inevitably, but I hope it's not for a very long time so Lorna can grow as a character.

  3. #198
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    I would say that what Alex did was nowhere near as bad as what Scott did, after all there's plenty of extenuating circumstances, from Lorna acting a bit crazy to whether Annie's kid was manipulating Alex, Alex had his bad moments but I wouldn't call him a terrible boyfriend, to me their main problems are not their own faults but that of others like the writers and editors and such, the characters would be fine, now to many of Lorna's fans want her as nothing more than a female copy of Magneto, with her views on humanity and such as basically exact carbon copies of his, like she's now little more if at all than just Magneto's daughter, she lost her identity underneath his umbrella and doesn't look to regain it anytime soon sadly...and it's odd how some want to hold what he did in the CC era against Alex but then what Magneto has done over the years, which is FAR worse is somehow ignored or forgiven for the sake of Lorna being superglued to his side and just agreeing to anything and everything that he says like she's been brainwashed to obey him, back when she was dating Alex at least she would object to some of his ideas and plans and stick to her guns...

    Jean and Scott though were the poster children for the entire X-line for so long that Marvel wouldn't allow any other couple to challenge them, no matter how good the other couple is/was...

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    I can't really get behind Alex and Lorna anymore. I'm finding that couple almost as problematic as Scott/Jean if not worse in some respects. And much like Scott, Alex was a terrible boyfriend in the Claremont era and then again in the 2000s. What he did to Lorna with Annie was just as bad as what Scott did to Jean in Morrison's run. I agree with Lorna that Summers brothers should be avoided entirely and I know they'll be reunited inevitably, but I hope it's not for a very long time so Lorna can grow as a character.
    yeah publicly humilating her in front of her friends and family on her wedding day was about as low as you can go. He broke her and that was beyond f-ed up. For someone that was already dealing with mental trauma, that was the absolute worse thing that could have been done to her at that moment

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    I would say that what Alex did was nowhere near as bad as what Scott did, after all there's plenty of extenuating circumstances, from Lorna acting a bit crazy to whether Annie's kid was manipulating Alex, Alex had his bad moments but I wouldn't call him a terrible boyfriend, to me their main problems are not their own faults but that of others like the writers and editors and such, the characters would be fine, now to many of Lorna's fans want her as nothing more than a female copy of Magneto, with her views on humanity and such as basically exact carbon copies of his, like she's now little more if at all than just Magneto's daughter, she lost her identity underneath his umbrella and doesn't look to regain it anytime soon sadly...and it's odd how some want to hold what he did in the CC era against Alex but then what Magneto has done over the years, which is FAR worse is somehow ignored or forgiven for the sake of Lorna being superglued to his side and just agreeing to anything and everything that he says like she's been brainwashed to obey him, back when she was dating Alex at least she would object to some of his ideas and plans and stick to her guns...

    Jean and Scott though were the poster children for the entire X-line for so long that Marvel wouldn't allow any other couple to challenge them, no matter how good the other couple is/was...
    As far back as the CC era, when Lorna was clearly possessed by Malice and not responsible for her actions, Alex would bemoan the situation and act as if he's the victim. As if Lorna purposefully dumped him and betrayed him and he sought comfort with Maddie. Maddie at least had reasons to despise Scott but Alex would act as if he was a similarly scorned lover and that Lorna was completely at fault. When Maddie died, Alex mourned more for her (in the arms of another redheaded woman lol) than he did for Lorna.

    So his behavior has been problematic from the beginning and that's not even getting into Chuck Austen's run. When Lorna was finally getting close to Bobby again and it seemed like they might have gotten together, Alex inserts himself back into the situation and tells Lorna he's in love with her still in Milligan's run. This is after he's left her at the altar and said that he no longer loves her but wants to be with Annie.

    I wouldn't say that Lorna fans want her to be a carbon copy of Magneto. She demonstrated her own ideology which bore similarities to his but clearly Magneto is not the same Magneto who was originally introduced so that does leave a void which Lorna can fill. And a lot of Lorna fans are always very well aware that switching her keeper from Alex to Magneto isn't much of an improvement because her identity has been lost by both men.

    Which is ironic because the movies went out of their way to demonstrate anything but that with Jean and Logan. And it didn't help that Jean featured prominently in The Wolverine and even in Logan, there's a deleted scene where Logan and Charles are asked if Logan ever had anyone in his life who he could have settled down with and it's Jean they both think of.

  6. #201
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    Lorna holding the same views as Magneto really hints that the person never read anything regarding Lorna. Apparently, they missed all her appearances of her being a hero or the number of times she has told him that he has to work on getting even a fraction of her trust.
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  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Izanami View Post
    Lorna holding the same views as Magneto really hints that the person never read anything regarding Lorna. Apparently, they missed all her appearances of her being a hero or the number of times she has told him that he has to work on getting even a fraction of her trust.
    I think what's being missed here is the early 2000s era where Lorna was spouting the same ideology as Magneto and was confronted by Xavier, Wolverine, etc. for her radical views. And that's an era where a lot of Lorna fans felt like she was coming into her own, apart from the X-Men, and really developing her own core set of values and beliefs when it came to mutant-human harmony so it was an exciting time for her.

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    I think what's being missed here is the early 2000s era where Lorna was spouting the same ideology as Magneto and was confronted by Xavier, Wolverine, etc. for her radical views. And that's an era where a lot of Lorna fans felt like she was coming into her own, apart from the X-Men, and really developing her own core set of values and beliefs when it came to mutant-human harmony so it was an exciting time for her.
    That mush have been around or near the chuck austen era, I remember that Lorna and Quicksilver opposed Magneto in Genosha and she helped to evacuate refugees. What ended her relationship is when he attacked a place and she realized he was doing the villainy schtick again.

    https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/up...-polaris37.jpg

    We need a group of mistreated x-men to join forces together. Lorna and Angel can be the founders.
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  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Izanami View Post
    That mush have been around or near the chuck austen era, I remember that Lorna and Quicksilver opposed Magneto in Genosha and she helped to evacuate refugees. What ended her relationship is when he attacked a place and she realized he was doing the villainy schtick again.

    https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/up...-polaris37.jpg

    We need a group of mistreated x-men to join forces together. Lorna and Angel can be the founders.
    That should have been the natural followup to Bunn's run when he had Lorna setup in Madripoor to run her own school and Warren in Tibet with the sleeper mutants. He should have brought them to Madripoor with he and Lorna co-running the school and their own branch of the X-men

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Izanami View Post
    That mush have been around or near the chuck austen era, I remember that Lorna and Quicksilver opposed Magneto in Genosha and she helped to evacuate refugees. What ended her relationship is when he attacked a place and she realized he was doing the villainy schtick again.

    https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/up...-polaris37.jpg

    We need a group of mistreated x-men to join forces together. Lorna and Angel can be the founders.
    Yeah, it was the Chuck Austen run.

    I'm all for your idea because both Warren and Lorna have gotten the short stick for years. Lorna for decades really.

  11. #206
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    I was saying that some Lorna fans here want her views on mutants and humans and such going forward to be all but identical to Magneto's, with some even not believing that Lorna would ever disagree with Magneto on anything...every X-relationship has problems, I just view Alex and Lorna's problems as mostly editorial and nothing that can't be fixed, and didn't see it as her disappearing when she was with Alex, now all she does is follow Magneto around like a lost puppy with the intent on making him proud of her and just doing whatever he tells her to do with no argument...yeah most of them love Austen's run for Lorna despite him writing an absolute mess of most characters imho...I view the wedding thing as people should have known that Lorna was not in her right mind at first, that Annie's kid was messing with both Alex and Annie's minds, that Annie was patterned after Austen's wife...

    As for Warren, I just fear that using him as a teacher or mentor could be a way for him to get shunted off to limbo for some time...

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    I was saying that some Lorna fans here want her views on mutants and humans and such going forward to be all but identical to Magneto's, with some even not believing that Lorna would ever disagree with Magneto on anything...every X-relationship has problems, I just view Alex and Lorna's problems as mostly editorial and nothing that can't be fixed, and didn't see it as her disappearing when she was with Alex, now all she does is follow Magneto around like a lost puppy with the intent on making him proud of her and just doing whatever he tells her to do with no argument...yeah most of them love Austen's run for Lorna despite him writing an absolute mess of most characters imho...I view the wedding thing as people should have known that Lorna was not in her right mind at first, that Annie's kid was messing with both Alex and Annie's minds, that Annie was patterned after Austen's wife...

    As for Warren, I just fear that using him as a teacher or mentor could be a way for him to get shunted off to limbo for some time...
    Oh I see what you mean. I haven't seen any posts like that about Lorna needing to be 100% identical with Magneto but it's possible some Lorna fans want that for the character. Imo, Alex/Lorna is just as problematic as Jott at this point and should be dissolved. And the same goes for Warren/Betsy even though I was a huge fan of this couple. They don't have the inherent issues that Jott or Alex/Lorna have had in their relationships (although some might argue that isn't the case considering the co-dependence they had with each other as well as Fantomex) but the writing hasn't served them as a couple at all for years now.

    He's pretty much already in limbo right now anyway if we're being honest.

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    Yeah, it was the Chuck Austen run.

    I'm all for your idea because both Warren and Lorna have gotten the short stick for years. Lorna for decades really.
    this could be interesting for both

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    Oh I see what you mean. I haven't seen any posts like that about Lorna needing to be 100% identical with Magneto but it's possible some Lorna fans want that for the character. Imo, Alex/Lorna is just as problematic as Jott at this point and should be dissolved. And the same goes for Warren/Betsy even though I was a huge fan of this couple. They don't have the inherent issues that Jott or Alex/Lorna have had in their relationships (although some might argue that isn't the case considering the co-dependence they had with each other as well as Fantomex) but the writing hasn't served them as a couple at all for years now.

    He's pretty much already in limbo right now anyway if we're being honest.
    I don't see the same problems with Alex and Lorna that others do, sure they had their problems like every X-couple but nothing fatal that couldn't be fixed without taking years to do it, all it would take is for a writer to want them together and it'd happen, Warren and Betsy have at least shown their feelings for each other continue over the last several years like when Warren saved Betsy from Proteus despite her telling him not to...it's simple just fix the writing and the characters will be fine...I never viewed A/L as being anywhere close to S/J in most ways...

    Yeah sadly Warren is pretty much in limbo now and the book that he's supposed to be in won't really even be about him either sadly...

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    I don't see the same problems with Alex and Lorna that others do, sure they had their problems like every X-couple but nothing fatal that couldn't be fixed without taking years to do it, all it would take is for a writer to want them together and it'd happen, Warren and Betsy have at least shown their feelings for each other continue over the last several years like when Warren saved Betsy from Proteus despite her telling him not to...it's simple just fix the writing and the characters will be fine...I never viewed A/L as being anywhere close to S/J in most ways...

    Yeah sadly Warren is pretty much in limbo now and the book that he's supposed to be in won't really even be about him either sadly...
    Being dumped at the altar is a pretty big deal even if Lorna did take him back afterwards which was completely unnecessary imo. That and also how when Lorna was possessed by Malice, Alex was constantly in angst about how HE was betrayed and not how Lorna was the one in pain and in trouble. There's a reason they say the Summers brothers are the worst boyfriends/husbands around. And if we're being honest, Alex and Lorna will get together again because it's a pattern for them to break up and then get back together every few years.

    As for Warren and Betsy, they're harder to predict based on the fact that nothing has been done with Warren for years and Betsy's character has been completely revamped and is so far removed now from what she was. I wouldn't be shocked if they claim Warren can only end up with Kwannon and not the real Betsy.

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