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  1. #316
    Mighty Member Thievery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arachne View Post
    I'd managed to block the suspenders from my mind. What was the artist thinking?

    Dani's costumes are okay, but they tend towards boring colour schemes, and showing too much skin. (Don't get me wrong, Dani's not body conscious at all, but I don't think she'd wear a costume the basically says "aim for my guts" into combat.)

    I will say, when it comes to these two costumes:



    Dani definitely wrote it better, even with the primary colours.




    I've really got to reread that run. I was too young to really appreciate it the first time around. The O5 just seemed so old!
    Dani definitely wears the loincloth outfit better than Warren does. You are right about the colors though. Dani does seem to get stuck wearing the same colored costumes a lot.

    As for Angel, this another one of feather winged Angel's bad uniforms. The feather winged version of Warren could give even Shadowcat a run for her money in terms of poorly designed uniforms

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    Well years ago it was raining out and my dad had gone outside to get the water out of the window well of my room, when he came in I ran into the bathroom to get him a towel to dry off and I ended up smashing my foot against the doorway, breaking my pinkie toe...and the less said about the parts of his own fingers that he unintentionally cut off the better...so if I try to take another bow I'll end up in the Hudson...even though I'm in the midwest...

    As to Warren the metal wings could be like a power up that he could only hold for a short time, or that using them would drain him, or just stick him in the metal wings---drawn well, and leave it at that...
    Seriously about your foot and your dad's fingers dude? I feel bad for you.

    I still say metal wings over feather wings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arachne View Post
    I don't know, I kind of like the idea of him switching at will. The metal wings are cool in fights, but there are times you don't want a whole lot of sharp blades on your back.

    Soft wings would be trouble enough a lot of the time. Flying's cool, but there are times the wings must be really awkward. Like driving a car.
    The metal wings can fold up completely into his back. No need to worry about them getting in the way. I like the idea of him keeping them at all times.

    The feathered wings are what cause Angel to be dismissed as just another guy who can fly. There are other X-Men who can fly, and they come with other cool abilities.

    The metal wings are the ones that help Warren stand out. They provide him with a better back story also.
    Last edited by Thievery; 08-11-2020 at 04:22 PM. Reason: spelling and grammar

  2. #317
    Mighty Member Arachne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thievery View Post
    Dani definitely wears the loincloth outfit better than Warren does. You are right about the colors though. Dani does seem to get stuck wearing the same colored costumes a lot.

    As for Angel, this another one of feather winged Angel's bad uniforms. The feather winged version of Warren could give even Shadowcat a run for her money in terms of poorly designed uniforms
    But when he gets it right, he really looks good.

    Dani's been stuck in variations of the school uniform for years. It's pretty sad given she rebelled against it in her first appearance.



    The metal wings can fold up completely into his back. No need to worry about them getting in the way. I like the idea of him keeping them at all times.

    The feathered wings are what cause Angel to be dismissed as just another guy who can fly. There are other X-Men who can fly, and they come with other cool abilities.

    The metal wings are the ones that help Warren stand out. They provide him with a better back story also.
    I thought they folded up, but I haven't seen them that way in so long I thought I was misremembering. I agree that just flying isn't enough for a character these days. I like the visual of him transforming from one form to another, though. Although he lost his healing powers, I think, the dichotomy of him healing in one form and killing in the other is cool, too.

  3. #318
    Mighty Member Thievery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arachne View Post
    But when he gets it right, he really looks good.

    Dani's been stuck in variations of the school uniform for years. It's pretty sad given she rebelled against it in her first appearance.




    I thought they folded up, but I haven't seen them that way in so long I thought I was misremembering. I agree that just flying isn't enough for a character these days. I like the visual of him transforming from one form to another, though. Although he lost his healing powers, I think, the dichotomy of him healing in one form and killing in the other is cool, too.
    Yep, Dani needs something besides the school uniform. She seems to forever be trapped in it, much like Kitty Pryde.

    I was burned out on Warren switching back and forth between being regular Angel and Archangel. Mostly because Warren was stuck in a cycle of stories where Betsy Braddock would cure him of his inability to control his Archangel form, only to have the next writer come in, revert Warren to not being able to control his Archangel form, and have Betsy cure him again twelve issues later. Warren had been stuck in that cycle of stories for most of the past decade, and it got old.

    But, your idea of Warren having being able to heal in in one form and having the killing powers in his Archangel form would be interesting. I would be okay with seeing him go through his Hulk like transformations again.

    Apologies if anyone else has suggested this idea and was ignored by the rest of us.

  4. #319
    Mighty Member Arachne's Avatar
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    I was thinking of it more like Wolfsbane's transformations than the Hulk's. She gets more aggressive and relies more on instinct when she changes, but she's still in control of turning back to human form.

    I agree that it's no good if Warren's going to rely on other people for the transformation. He needs agency over his abilities.

  5. #320
    Mighty Member Thievery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arachne View Post
    I was thinking of it more like Wolfsbane's transformations than the Hulk's. She gets more aggressive and relies more on instinct when she changes, but she's still in control of turning back to human form.

    I agree that it's no good if Warren's going to rely on other people for the transformation. He needs agency over his abilities.
    Okay, I see what you mean with the more Wolfsbane approach to Warren's transformations. It would be something new, and that's always nice.
    I think that this is how his transformation worked in the Astonishing X-Men annual from a few years ago, but it's been a while since I read it.

    I brought up the Hulk because that's how his transformations were usually handled. He would pretty much only change when he became super angry and lost control over his temper. Archangel even appeared in an obscure Hulk story during this era where the similar nature of their transformations were commented on.

    I like your idea better.

  6. #321
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    Yeah my dad was missing parts of three fingers, two shop accidents and one log splitter accident, as for my toe yeah it hurt and since it was my pinkie toe there wasn't anything that I could do but ride it out until it got better-one of his injuries happened the first time that he had ever used the safety equipment on that particular machine...as to Warren his wings and their abilities have changed depending on the different writers, Warren needs a big and good push...

  7. #322
    Mighty Member Thievery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    Yeah my dad was missing parts of three fingers, two shop accidents and one log splitter accident, as for my toe yeah it hurt and since it was my pinkie toe there wasn't anything that I could do but ride it out until it got better-one of his injuries happened the first time that he had ever used the safety equipment on that particular machine...as to Warren his wings and their abilities have changed depending on the different writers, Warren needs a big and good push...
    Damn, sorry about your dad, Logan. He must be one tough guy.

    Not sure that Warren is going to get the kind of push that you want, seeing as how we know what X-editor in chief White thinks of him. I t could be a while till we see him do any important. Just have to keep waiting, I guess.

  8. #323
    Mighty Member Arachne's Avatar
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    I don't know, I still think White was talking about pre-Archangel Warren. I think it's going to take a writer that liked him back in the '90s or before to bring him back to prominence, though. Again, it comes down to agency. As long as he relies on other people for control, he's going to keep losing popularity. That's been the mistake more recent writers have been making. People don't like characters who just follow along. Popular characters don't have to be leaders, but they have to be making decisions for themselves.

    Warren used to be like that. I was reading part of the Judgement War storyline tonight, and Warren was clearly in control of his actions, even when the bad guys tried to drug him. He's had some very cool scenes, so far.

  9. #324
    The Queen of Maggots Izanami's Avatar
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    I agree with Arachne. There are fewer and fewer people who liked pre 90s Warren or Non Archangel Warren. He used to be a fun and complex character but people see him as a punching bag or the guy with lame powers. Doesn't help that the movie made him a joke. A good x-men movie can make Angel into a revitalized character but I doubt that will happen any time soon.
    I come when there's something to take but I never give anything back.
    I know what you want. But it is not here. It's gone and it will never ever come again...

  10. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thievery View Post
    Damn, sorry about your dad, Logan. He must be one tough guy.

    Not sure that Warren is going to get the kind of push that you want, seeing as how we know what X-editor in chief White thinks of him. I t could be a while till we see him do any important. Just have to keep waiting, I guess.
    My dad died of pancreatic cancer about seven years ago, but yeah he was a tough guy...

    As to Warren yeah I doubted that he'd get anything serious anytime soon...sadly...right now Warren seems to be the odd guy out of the O5...

  11. #326
    Mighty Member Thievery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arachne View Post
    I don't know, I still think White was talking about pre-Archangel Warren. I think it's going to take a writer that liked him back in the '90s or before to bring him back to prominence, though. Again, it comes down to agency. As long as he relies on other people for control, he's going to keep losing popularity. That's been the mistake more recent writers have been making. People don't like characters who just follow along. Popular characters don't have to be leaders, but they have to be making decisions for themselves.

    Warren used to be like that. I was reading part of the Judgement War storyline tonight, and Warren was clearly in control of his actions, even when the bad guys tried to drug him. He's had some very cool scenes, so far.
    When I first read Judgement War, I really didn't care much for it. I'm not one who's usually for space stories or the Celestials. But we have a member here kept posting recaps of the issues. I decided to reread it. I liked it a lot better this time. I really miss Ship.

    I agree that Warren needs to stop relying on others for help controlling himself. But, I've said that many times before, and I know that I am starting to sound like a broken record.

    Quote Originally Posted by Izanami View Post
    I agree with Arachne. There are fewer and fewer people who liked pre 90s Warren or Non Archangel Warren. He used to be a fun and complex character but people see him as a punching bag or the guy with lame powers. Doesn't help that the movie made him a joke. A good x-men movie can make Angel into a revitalized character but I doubt that will happen any time soon.
    Well, after reading that recent interview, we know that head X-Editor Jordan White doesn't care for Warren. He flat out called him the dud of the O5. Said he was nothing but a generic rich guy who could fly.

    I think that everyone knows that I prefer metal winged Angel.

    I think that I've only watched one movie with Angel in it. I don't watch a lot of TV or movies, but this one was so bad I forgot that I actually watched it and don't remember much of it.
    Last edited by Thievery; 08-11-2020 at 11:12 PM. Reason: Spelling and grammar

  12. #327
    Mighty Member Thievery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    My dad died of pancreatic cancer about seven years ago, but yeah he was a tough guy...

    As to Warren yeah I doubted that he'd get anything serious anytime soon...sadly...right now Warren seems to be the odd guy out of the O5...
    Sorry about your dad, Logan.

    And White flat out called Warren a dud. So yeah, I think we may not see him for awhile after the Empyre X-Men miniseries.

  13. #328
    Mighty Member Arachne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thievery View Post
    When I first read Judgement War, I really didn't care much for it. I'm not one who's usually for space stories or the Celestials. But we have a member here kept posting recaps of the issues. I decided to reread it. I liked it a lot better this time. I really miss Ship.

    I agree that Warren needs to stop relying on others for help controlling himself. But, I've said that many times before, and I know that I am starting to sound like a broken record.
    Judgement War suffered the first time around from being sooo long. It really seemed to go on forever. Simonson's Asgard story in New Mutants was the same and at the same time. I don't know what she was thinking tower months. It reads much better all at once, but I prefer the stories set on Earth.

    We need a topic that's less distressing than Warren's future...

  14. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thievery View Post
    Sorry about your dad, Logan.

    And White flat out called Warren a dud. So yeah, I think we may not see him for awhile after the Empyre X-Men miniseries.
    Thanks...anyway sadly Hickman seems to have his favorite pairings or possible pairings and Warren isn't included in them, I'm not sure that Warren has even talked to Betsy since her new body and all and one would think that they would at least talk...

  15. #330
    Mighty Member Arachne's Avatar
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    I don't think he's had any contact with Apocalypse, either. You'd think we'd at least get his opinion on the guy.

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