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  1. #91
    Fantastic Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham citizen View Post
    […]
    Part 1
    GREEN ARROW & THE OUTSIDERS
    I don’t know very well Green Arrow, but it seems to me he is some sort of opposite of Batman: he is more reckless, more inclined to the action and more sensible to the social justice, so I thought: why not to move Green Arrow to Gotham, give him a team of characters took both from the Batman than the Green Arrow franchises, take advantage of the Bat-franchise to try to create a successful title with Green Arrow?
    The idea is to use a strategy similar to the one adopted with Birds of Pray: to write a series of stories where Batman and Green Arrow work together, making evident their differences and their similarities, to introduce the character in the franchise, but instead to create a title Batman / Green Arrow, the purpose is to build around Green Arrow a team with people who aren’t members of the Bat-family. I think to create a little of rivalry between the Bat-family and the Outsiders, can be useful to make the title more interesting.

    HARLEY QUINN
    I’m wondering if Harley should be part of this team or of the Gotham’s Outlaws, because it seems to me the fans see her more like an anti-hero than a villain; or maybe I'm wrong and it is the DC that want she became a good-guy.

    ORACLE
    Because the idea to create a team with a field leader more inclined to the action and a remote leader more inclined to the preparation was good the Birds of Prey, I’m thinking to create something similar for Green Arrow & the Outsiders putting an Oracle at the side of Green Arrow, but because I think it is never a good idea to told an old story changing the protagonist, I want do something different: in this reality Julia Pennyworth (who doesn’t need a wheelchair) has made Green Arrow acquaintance and because she is an investigative journalist, she started to help him with his fight against the crime doing a great part of the investigative work he needs and eventually she adopted the secret identity of Oracle, becoming in this way the remote leader of the Outsiders.

    LEGENDS OF GOTHAM
    The purpose of this title is to tell all the origins of every characters (it doesn’t matter if they are heroes, villains or supporting characters), all the prior events that made this reality different from the pre-reboot universe.

    KNIGHTS OF GOTHAM
    Anthological low price book for newsstands and supermarkets, in order to reach the highest number possible of occasional readers, giving them all titles of the franchise in a single book. In order to contain the price, the book will be printed in black and white on newsprint.

    DETECTIVE COMICS
    Another low price anthological book whit a format similar to the one used for Knights of Gotham, but destined to hold detective stories instead of the ones of superheroes; it is foreseen the possibility to print also a collectible edition on high quality paper and with colored stories.
    This book has the dual purpose to improve the DC’s sales outside the USA (where the superheroes aren’t very loved) and allow to the foreign authors to gain confidence with the DC’s characters, because they can bring new (hopefully good) ideas.
    Some example of titles that the book can hold are: “Vicky Vale”, “Montoya & Bullock”, “Grayson”, “G.C.P.D. Chronicles” e “Jason Bard”.

    VICKY VALE
    The Vicky Vale’s adventures are mainly focused on her reports about the corruption and the criminality of the entire Country of Gotham (the Vicky Vale’s motto is: «A journalist tells what the others want keep secret, not what the others want make know») and these reports will often put Vicky in trouble so Bruce Wayne (owner of the journal in which Vicky works) to give her a bodyguard: Sasha Bordeaux, though both Vicky than Sasha in the beginning will not appreciate that because Vicky fears it is a limitation to her leeway and Sasha thinks it is degrading be the bodyguard of a journalist; both will have to change their opinion about that. So the focus of the Vicky Vale's adventures is the plot of illicit affairs among the high society, the criminality and the politicians of Gotham and those affairs are faced from the point of view of the indignant ordinary citizen who want know the truth.

    G.C.P.D. CHRONICLES
    “G.C.P.D. Chronicles” tells the stories of the entire Gotham City Police Department, so the main characters will change with the focus of the stories, even if there will be a recurrent cast (like it happened in the TV show “N.Y.P.D. Blue”) and also the genre will change from story to story varying from the realism of NYPD Blue, to the action of NCIS, without forgot the focus on procedural forensics investigations of “CSI Crime Scene”. Unlike “Vicky Vale”, where the focus is the corrupted relationship among the criminals, the politicians and the high society of the entire Country of Gotham, in this title the focus is how that corrupted relationship influences the work of the Gotham Police and how much the corruption was able to infiltrate itself the in the Police.
    Some of the main characters of the title will be the Commissioner Gordon, his deputy Commissioner Sara Essen-Gordon, the Captain William Pettit (commander of the Gotham SWAT) and the Mayor of Gotham Roman Sionis; for now no one knows he is Black Mask and (always for now) his face isn’t disfigured.

    MONTOYA & BULLOCK
    The adventured of “M. & B.” are detective stories of hard-boiled genre, where the two detectives face various cases of common crime, which usually become investigations against the Gotham criminality. In this reality both of them left the G.C.P.D. because Bullock was fired for political reasons and Montoya decided to resign for protest, so they have became private investigators and the contrast among the good relationship they have with the police, the bad relationship they have with the politician and their different feelings toward the masked vigilantes (Montoya thinks they are helpful but Bullock hates them) will play an important role in their stories.
    I took away them from the G.C.P.D. in order to differenziate their title from G.C.P.D. Chronicles.

    BLÜDHAVEN COPS
    This title should merge the tone of Miami Vice, Starsky & Hutch and Donnie Brasco together and is focused on the adventures of Dick Grayson and his partner, who are detectives for the Blüdhaven Police Department and often they go undercover, to infiltrate themselves in the Blüdhaven criminality.
    I would love use Barbara Gordon like his team mate, because I think there is a great chemistry between them (under all points of view) and I think the readers will love that: the unresolved love affairs help always the sales.

    JASON BARD
    I don’t know enough this character to have a clear idea of how utilize him, but I think he may be used in two different ways: he can be a supporting character for Vicky Vale or he can have his own title; he can do both the things: sometime he can help Vicky Vale in her investigations and some other times he can have his own adventures.

    GRAPHIC NOVELS
    The graphic novels should not be in continuity, not to mess the storyline of the regular titles, in this way they can be used to experiment new thematics, which can be add in the regular titles later, after having understood if, how and when and insert them in the continuity.

    OTHER CHARACTERS

    DUKE THOMAS & LUKE FOX
    These are other two character I don’t know very well so I may be wrong, but I think the best use of these characters could be put them in the Teen Titans (Duke Thomas) and in the Young Justice (Luke Fox). I would love also to change their nicknames, because Signal seems to me banal and I think Batwing is more adapt to a vehicle than a Batman’s ally, so I suggest Midnight-sun (or the shorter Nightsun) for Duke Thomas (thank to Lemonpeace for the involuntary suggestion) and Steelwing for Luke, but this isn’t a really important matter; the name Steelwing is an homage to the very first Italian Batman edition, where Batman was called Ala d'Acciaio, which are just the Italians words for Steelwing.

    FERONIA
    Because I think Poison Ivy is a very interesting both when she is an ecoterrorist than when she is some sort of Goddess of the Plants, but the two roles are incompatible, I decided to split the two concept in two different character: Poison Ivy is the ecoterrorist and Feronia (the Ancient Roman Goddess of wildlife, fertility and civilian rights) is the Goddess who rules the Robinson Park in the centre of Gotham (Poison Ivy did during "No men's land”) and who gave to Poison Ivy her powers. So in this reality the Robinson Park is become an inhospitable place for the citizens of Gotham, except for a group of orphans called “The Children of the Park”, who choose to live with her and according to her rule: to refuse the civilization; also this is a concept took from "No men's land”.

    POISON IVY
    In this reality Poison Ivy is an ecoterrorist who finances herself committing robberies and other crimes. She is still related to the nature and the plants, so she conserves her powers (in this reality they were obtained by Feronia), but she isn’t the plant goddess she was in some stories, because that role now is filled by Feronia herself.

    THE LAZARUS PIT
    In this reality only a Lazarus Pit exists, it is located in the dungeon of Ra’s al Ghoul base and it can’t resurrect the deads or heal the dyings. It can only restore a corpse and instill in it a semblance of life, turning it on a being without will and self-awareness, able only to obey blindly to his owner: Ra’s al Ghoul.

    End of part 2

  2. #92
    Fantastic Member Gaius's Avatar
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    One change I'd make in a hard rebooted Batman would be to go back to the interpretation Bruce Wayne is the real person while Batman is the mask.

  3. #93
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngroove View Post
    I honestly could go for a total hard reboot, that erases Year One, as well as others that I find either highly boring or highly overrated, such as Killing Joke, and Death In the Family.
    I though I was the only one with no love for Year One or The Killing Joke. Plenty of people think Death in the Family poorly crafted, as I learned after joining this board.

    I think Batman is so tainted at this point due to things off and on from the 80s before the current management was in charge.

    But I do 100% agree that if/when we ever get another reboot, we need new people behind it to give it a chance. One who preferably took notes from before Batman got Miller'd
    I personally agree with your opinion - though I do like some later editions to the fam - that Batman's grim dark and damage and the way he tests others has ruined/tainted him for me to a large degree (and recently, i think other damage has been done to Dick and Tim), but i cannot deny this Batman moves product. Maybe I am just too out of touch with mainstream.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 03-24-2020 at 09:39 PM.

  4. #94
    Fantastic Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I though I was the only one with no love for Year One or The Killing Joke. Plenty of people think Death in the Family poorly crafted, as I learned after joining this board.
    […]
    I think you two aren't the only ones.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngroove View Post
    I honestly could go for a total hard reboot, that erases Year One, as well as others that I find either highly boring or highly overrated, such as Killing Joke, and Death In the Family.
    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I think Batman is so tainted at this point due to things off and on from the 80s before the current management was in charge.

    But I do 100% agree that if/when we ever get another reboot, we need new people behind it to give it a chance. One who preferably took notes from before Batman got Miller'd
    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I though I was the only one with no love for Year One or The Killing Joke. Plenty of people think Death in the Family poorly crafted, as I learned after joining this board.

    I personally agree with your opinion - though I do like some later editions to the fam - that Batman's grim dark and damage and the way he tests others has ruined/tainted him for me to a large degree (and recently, i think other damage has been done to Dick and Tim), but i cannot deny this Batman moves product. Maybe I am just too out of touch with mainstream.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham citizen View Post
    I think you two aren't the only ones.
    I have no love for Year One, Killing Joke or Death in the Family.

    I'm for a hard reboot or a fresh start...meaning we move new Earths and start over there.

    I imagine a fresh start to be Earth 2021 (JLA) and Earth 2022 (JSA).

  6. #96
    Fantastic Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    What do you mean with "hard reboot or fresh start"?
    I ask because in my mind those terms have very different meaning: in all three cases the writers start to write their stories without refer to the previous ones, but with a fresh start (or restart if you prefer) the old stories aren't cancelled from the continuity (it is what Morrison did with his New X-men), with a soft reboot (or simply reboot) the old stories are substituted by new origins (it is what the DC did with Crisis on the Infinite Earths), but in both cases no one change the status quo of the various franchise/characters, while with a hard reboot (or reset if you prefer) the status quo of the various franchise/characters is heavily changed (it is the approach adopted by the author of X-men Evolution).

  7. #97
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    I don't want a hard reboot. I don't like the idea of reboots. I like characters having their history. But continuity is so snarled and certain characters burdened with prior actions that I think reboot or sweeping under the rug are the only solutions. Either way, I would look forward to actual history and knowing what's what. I'm not fond of "it all happened" - I think certain versions are contradictory and cannot work together. Seeing Identity Crisis brought back into canon didn't make me smile, either. I do think some stories were just crap that deserve to be erased. Problem is they often had knock-on effects, and besides different people think different stories were good/bad.

    I don't think a totally clean slate reboot makes sense. It alienates the fans reading now, and (without substantial changes to business side of things) is not going to draw in new readers to make up for the loss. Not it's back at origins (don't really need to see origins again for most of them) and lacking a lot of the spin-off characters. I mean characters like Black Lightning or Firestorm can easily be introduced earlier than they were the first time around, but the spinoff and "family" characters are a different story.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham citizen View Post
    What do you mean with "hard reboot or fresh start"?
    I ask because in my mind those terms have very different meaning: in all three cases the writers start to write their stories without refer to the previous ones, but with a fresh start (or restart if you prefer) the old stories aren't cancelled from the continuity (it is what Morrison did with his New X-men), with a soft reboot (or simply reboot) the old stories are substituted by new origins (it is what the DC did with Crisis on the Infinite Earths), but in both cases no one change the status quo of the various franchise/characters, while with a hard reboot (or reset if you prefer) the status quo of the various franchise/characters is heavily changed (it is the approach adopted by the author of X-men Evolution).
    I'll try.


    Soft reboot: character A returned to nearly the beginning of her/his super-heroic career...but character B is not.

    Soft reboots is what DC did in the past: they rebooted Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman but didn't reboot Teen Titans because it was selling well. About 10 years later, Titans was not selling well...but had created a huge mess in Continuity that did not end with Titans cancellation.

    Hard reboot: return all characters to the beginning (or nearly the beginning) of their super-heroic careers. In a hard reboot, Wonder Woman, Superman, Batman and etcetera would have only begun super-heroics about 2½ to 3¼ years ago. All history is erased.

    Fresh start: All characters are near the beginning of their super-heroic careers. On this Earth, Wonder Woman, Superman, Batman and etcetera would have only begun super-heroics about 2½ to 3¼ years ago. All history is preserved...on another Earth (but it didn't happen here).

    Hard Reboots and Fresh Starts are similar...but the former erases all past stories while the later leaves the continuity mess on alternate Earths.

  9. #99
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Batman himself is low on the list of my favorite Bat characters, so I'm not keen on ditching the bulk of the rest for a while so he can start over again (and especially if he ends up with different people around this time as Ollie and Iris and even somehwhat Lois and Clark did).

    I do use different definitions of soft reboot and hard reboot than you do. Soft reboots to me are Kara in Rebirth or even Donna when her family was killed and she was given a new origin story and new role/supporting cast. Or Ollie's reworking in early bronze age or when Aquaman got a whole new backstory and became Orin.

    Regular reboots are explicit and actively erase significant portions of history and acknowledge that reality has changed.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 03-25-2020 at 09:06 AM.

  10. #100
    Fantastic Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scary harpy View Post
    I'll try.


    Soft reboot: character A returned to nearly the beginning of her/his super-heroic career...but character B is not.

    Soft reboots is what DC did in the past: they rebooted Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman but didn't reboot Teen Titans because it was selling well. About 10 years later, Titans was not selling well...but had created a huge mess in Continuity that did not end with Titans cancellation.

    Hard reboot: return all characters to the beginning (or nearly the beginning) of their super-heroic careers. In a hard reboot, Wonder Woman, Superman, Batman and etcetera would have only begun super-heroics about 2½ to 3¼ years ago. All history is erased.

    Fresh start: All characters are near the beginning of their super-heroic careers. On this Earth, Wonder Woman, Superman, Batman and etcetera would have only begun super-heroics about 2½ to 3¼ years ago. All history is preserved...on another Earth (but it didn't happen here).

    Hard Reboots and Fresh Starts are similar...but the former erases all past stories while the later leaves the continuity mess on alternate Earths.
    Perfect, so you call soft reboot what I would call partial reboot, you call fresh start something similar to what DC did with Earth-1 and Earth-2 or Marvel did with the Ultimate comics and for you a hard reboot is something similar to a fresh start, but with the end of the old titles and their continuity.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by scary harpy View Post
    I have no love for Year One, Killing Joke or Death in the Family.
    I like Year One and Killing Joke, but Year one is imo to down to earth and 80s to really fit in the current continuity, and Killing Joke doesn't really have in continuity imo.

    Death in the Family is just not well written, that thing has way to many plot contrivances.

  12. #102
    Fantastic Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I don't want a hard reboot. I don't like the idea of reboots. I like characters having their history. But continuity is so snarled and certain characters burdened with prior actions that I think reboot or sweeping under the rug are the only solutions. Either way, I would look forward to actual history and knowing what's what. I'm not fond of "it all happened" - I think certain versions are contradictory and cannot work together. Seeing Identity Crisis brought back into canon didn't make me smile, either. I do think some stories were just crap that deserve to be erased. Problem is they often had knock-on effects, and besides different people think different stories were good/bad.

    I don't think a totally clean slate reboot makes sense. It alienates the fans reading now, and (without substantial changes to business side of things) is not going to draw in new readers to make up for the loss. Not it's back at origins (don't really need to see origins again for most of them) and lacking a lot of the spin-off characters. I mean characters like Black Lightning or Firestorm can easily be introduced earlier than they were the first time around, but the spinoff and "family" characters are a different story.
    I agree (if I have understood you): a hard reboot would alienate a lot of old readers, without capture new ones. But in my humble opinion a soft reboot wouldn't solve all the issues of continuity, so I think a reboot should be something in the middle to work: it should restart all the titles/characters/franchise from a status quo very close to the old one, in order to not alienate the old readers, but at the same time it would solve all the issues of the old continuity and above all this reboot should be preceded by an accurate work to analysis of the old continuity, in order to understand what went wrong, what was good and if there are good ideas/characters that haven't been exploited correctly, because without this work every reboot will fail like the New 52 failed.

  13. #103
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham citizen View Post
    I agree (if I have understood you): a hard reboot would alienate a lot of old readers, without capture new ones. But in my humble opinion a soft reboot wouldn't solve all the issues of continuity, so I think a reboot should be something in the middle to work: it should restart all the titles/characters/franchise from a status quo very close to the old one, in order to not alienate the old readers, but at the same time it would solve all the issues of the old continuity and above all this reboot should be preceded by an accurate work to analysis of the old continuity, in order to understand what went wrong, what was good and if there are good ideas/characters that haven't been exploited correctly, because without this work every reboot will fail like the New 52 failed.
    I feel like you've hit on the problem - because you simply cannot solve the issues of the old continuity. Because the issues are often subjective, and blown in different directions by fads in both creators and fans. The real problem is bad writing and poor marketing, not continuity itself. A good writer can always find a way to tell a good story within continuity. A bad writer can't tell a good story without.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
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  14. #104
    Fantastic Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    Actually not: I wanted answer to this post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I don't want a hard reboot. I don't like the idea of reboots. I like characters having their history. But continuity is so snarled and certain characters burdened with prior actions that I think reboot or sweeping under the rug are the only solutions. Either way, I would look forward to actual history and knowing what's what. I'm not fond of "it all happened" - I think certain versions are contradictory and cannot work together. Seeing Identity Crisis brought back into canon didn't make me smile, either. I do think some stories were just crap that deserve to be erased. Problem is they often had knock-on effects, and besides different people think different stories were good/bad.

    I don't think a totally clean slate reboot makes sense. It alienates the fans reading now, and (without substantial changes to business side of things) is not going to draw in new readers to make up for the loss. Not it's back at origins (don't really need to see origins again for most of them) and lacking a lot of the spin-off characters. I mean characters like Black Lightning or Firestorm can easily be introduced earlier than they were the first time around, but the spinoff and "family" characters are a different story.
    but I quoted the wrong one.
    Anyway I agree with you: the solution is the good writing, not another reboot.

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