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  1. #76
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hulkling View Post
    Emma surrender her fragment to Hydra in Secret empire 9 and wanted to support Hydra rule until HydraCap said " Um nope , now I have almost all the cosmic cube i can kill you all , thanks".

    the only emma role in New Tian was creating the concentration and reeducation camps
    She surrendered it when Cap started threatening the mutants in New Tian.

    I mean, ok maybe it's better ending this discussion here since there's not going to be any agreement.

  2. #77

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    everyone else who gave up a cube fragment saw criticism. why should Emma be exempt?

  3. #78
    Peter Scott/Scott Peter SpiderClops's Avatar
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    People are defending Inhumans in IvX...

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Force View Post
    You know....the way Storm has been treated/used/written by current writers is just disgraceful and annoying. I don’t really post on here, but this X-Men Monday REALLY rubbed me the wrong way. Storm DEFINITELY should have been mentioned and significantly. As others have noted, Storm always seems to be the leader during the X-Men’s most difficult and dark times, and when things get better, Cyclops comes in to take over the leadership realms.

    I’m SICK of it. Storm needs her recognition, and these writers need to do better.

    Furthermore, yes, Emma has “authority”, but as an X-Men leader, the ONLY thing she did to earn that, was to be Cyclops’ concubine.
    Imagine saying Cyclops only got the X-Men leadership when things "got better", without a shred of irony.

    Jean fans are something else.

  5. #80
    Extraordinary Member Fokken's Avatar
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    I choked on my water ha ha ha ha

  6. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderClops View Post
    People are defending Inhumans in IvX...
    This forum has quite a few Emma haters here. Not much anyone can do about it, I can't really stop them from hating on Emma Frost, but I just ignore them.

    At some point I just realized I will never find common ground with them, their opinions are set in stone and will never change, so there isn't really any reason to argue with them because it's honestly just exhausting and sad.

    So I sit in my corner and I love Emma, I love Jean, I love Storm, I love Kate, I definitely Love Rachel, I love Betsy, Rogue, Illyana, Jubilee, Paige... I think I love most of the X-women and I enjoy stories about all of them.

    I think of the women Storm is the best leader, Jean is second to her. Dani is a pretty good leader for the New Mutants.

    I think Jordan had it right, Emma is a good leader in the boardroom, or at a political meeting, or even as headmistress of a school. Her strict and somewhat acerbic attitude works in those settings. But as a field leader inspiring her team, Emma really isn't good at that.

    I actually think Elizabeth, Rogue, Polaris, Kate, Rachel, all could be good leaders depending on the team. Probably Rogue is the best leader out of that group, and Polaris is second.

    So anyway, that's my contribution to this discussion. I am sure a lot of people will disagree with me, and that's perfectly ok!
    We are MUTANT..Krakoa, FOREVER!!! “Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité”

  7. #82

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    The boys are a bit tricky to hash out on leadership.

    #1 definitely Scott
    #2 older Cable
    #3 Logan
    #4 Sam and/or Roberto
    #5 Bishop
    #6 Warren

    I have trouble remembering the other boys in leadership positions, those would be my top 6 male leaders though.

    I actually think Scott and Storm are equally capable, but in both cases they have suffered under some poor writers over the years. My favourite period of the X-Men was with Storm as leader, but I honestly loved when Scott became a strong leader while he was partnered with Emma. I am not really invested with Scott and Emma getting back together, but I feel like the writers took Scott further than ever during that period.

    I think Dawn of X is going to be good for Storm and Scott and demonstrate both of them as leaders. Already it seems like when Scott and Storm are in the field together they co-lead, and I like that acknowledgement that they respect each other, that also shows good leadership qualities, Storm and Scott trust each other, they work well together, and they are very capable of leading together.
    We are MUTANT..Krakoa, FOREVER!!! “Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité”

  8. #83
    Ultimate Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    I doubt they see Jean Grey as a leader of the X-Men.
    the closest explanation that JDW gave is that characters need to rotste cause there is 382 chaarcters.
    Meanwhile Cyclops is always the leader.

    The good thing about Wolverine and Cyclops deads is that Storm, teen jean and adult jean could be leaders.
    It's as hame that Storm got realy wasted as leader

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderClops View Post
    People are defending Inhumans in IvX...
    Where? if moderation is defending inhumans
    Last edited by spirit2011; 01-21-2020 at 07:43 AM.

  9. #84
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    everyone else who gave up a cube fragment saw criticism. why should Emma be exempt?
    Frost gave him the fragment to spare the life of her fellow mutants. She also cut a deal with Magneto to make sure Stevil got beat as she was involved in the mass attack at the end.

    It was given to save lives, and she had a back up plan to to stop Stevil

  10. #85
    Astonishing Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    He says he likes Nightcrawler finally asked a question that should have been asked years ago: Why has Kurt being an X-Leader not caught on? He says he didn't consider Excalibur like many Excalibur fans do because he didn't think it really had a leader. In the beginning maybe. Claremont planted the seeds for Kurt, though, and it actually became official when Davis returned and it was a long building character arc for him. Yeah if he isn't someone who anyone would follow I guess I just imagined that talk he had with Brian and he resented him when the girls looked to him for leadership and not him and that time he said Kurt deserves to be the leader and all written by Davis and everyone else that came after, including Ellis Seemed to accept it as Canon. Pete Wisdom would call him "O' fearless leader" to tease him to the point I was concerned he was becoming a square, lol. I suggest this editor read Excalibur # 45 that finally focus on Kurts self doubts that held him back and finally accepted himself as a leader. This is the actual issue where Kurt first thinks of himself as the X-Mens "mascot" the happy go lucky one. He trains the technet into a effective team that uses actual teamwork and actually calls them the N-Men and doing it all with a broken leg. His broken leg actual mirrors his thoughts about Xavier. If he can get a villain team to work together , one that hated Excaliburs guts and take orders from him that is pretty amazing. So many creators and editors this past decade have presented themselves as fans but I'm more inclined to think that these fans are casual and maybe read only handful of comics. Or maybe he only read the Claremont issues and dropped it after he left I have heard that there were readers that left when Claremont did. Too many people at Marvel make these bold generalized statements and have nothing in print to back up their insight. Do they have to be fans? No. At least not to the extreme that there are. Some real good writers can andhave written good stories without being big fans just as long as they do research. Its ok sir, you can admit that you werent a fan of Kurts direction as leader. There are NC fans, amazingly enough, that don't like Kurt as leader and prefer him a carefree swashbuckler and jokester.

    The most ironic thing ever is that he prefers Kurt as a friend rather than a leader because this is one of the big reasons why many NC fans are angry with Chuck Austens run and not just because of "The Draco" but the scene where Cyclops berates Kurt for being a friend rather than a leader still stings with many. Funny, that run was reviled but for some reason despite most people forgetting that run they decided to hang on to that bit. This is another who was supposed to be a Kurt fan and I guess he is another in favor of Kurt being a lighthearted character only. So be it but state it as an opinion and dont make grand statements that are obvious nontruths like this team didnt have a leader. It's funny. I was just saying this recently in the NC thread that I dont think the X-Offices ever really respected him as something more. I feel really bad for Storm though, at least she was a succesful and long running X-Leader when Kurt really wasn't. She gets a quick mention but should have gotten the paragraphs that Cyclops got. I also agree, it being MLKD its a bit of a travesty. So Wolverine in Shism really impressed him, huh. There was so much hate towards him during those days it was amazing. If Marvel doesn't remember the time Kurt led briefly during Claremonts original run that Logan himself said he was the best they got when Storm left and Kurt tried to pass the mantle off to Logan and he said "No way leading aint my style." Storm had to basically force him to lead during the Outback days. So Logan wasn't just this automatic leader either. He was very much like Kurt. He idn't want it but grew into it like him leading X-Force later. Funny thing is Kurt was more impressive as leader of the X-Men when it wasn't official, many times he served as the unofficial co -leader like in Revolutions and Reload, he would start calling shots when Rogue or Storm were incapacitated or elsewhere. Of course, That was CC's writing.

    I'm mildly impressed with the fact that they decided to put aside their starry-eyed obsession with Cyclops and Wolverine (and Emma) to realize that Wolverine on the council wasn't a right choice which was there gut reaction for serious consideration along with Cyclops. This was who most of the M-Day era and beyond focused on. So how much serious thought did they give the characters actually on the counsel? Lol.

    Again X-Editor, you prefer Kurt as the friend rather than a leader and that's how you envision the character? Fine. That's your right I guess. But don't say Excalibur didn't have a leader because Alan Davis might think otherwise, maybe even Claremont too. Go and ignore actual interviews, him being actually referred to as leader outright in the books and comic book databases. Hell, just go and ignore, oh, I don't know I guess how many "delusional" readers that are out there.
    Last edited by From The Shadows; 01-30-2020 at 09:41 PM.

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