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  1. #7
    Oni of the Ash Moon Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Did Luke spending most of ESB making mistake after mistake take away from his victory in ANH? Look, the one constant in the original trilogy is that Luke was not the perfect hero. Why would we expect things to be different later down the line? Also, ROTJ isn't the end of the story, no more then any of us are finished with character development and backsliding and reclaiming until our own lives are done. (Besides, we saw what the Luke you're talking about looked like in the Legends tie-ins, and it was a stagnant, flat character. TLJ did the right thing in giving him a character arc instead of having him just come in like Superman and get the job done.)
    The first act had Luke cross the threshold to the supernatural world by him using the force to destroy the Death Star in ANH. The second act of the Hero's Journey is about failure and mistakes about facing the darkness inside and out and ESB did a great job in doing that it was forward progression of the character he had to deal with his introduction of this new world both good and the bad. As ROTJ did a great job in rounding off his entire hero's journey as a 3rd act with him rejoining Han and Leia and looking over at the force ghost signifying his mastery of the real world and the supernatural one.

    I'm not saying that Luke should not fail it is the way he failed I don't think that he needs to be "super perfect jedi Luke" just that the choice to kill a kid in his sleep not matter how fleeting the thought was the wrong way to go about creating a flawed and beaten Luke. Luke was willing to die by the Emperor's hands in order to save his father, in a since die than give over to his instinct. It is a back track in character development to retread over this ground.

    Eh, not so much:

    I saw darkness. I'd sensed it building in him. I'd see it at moments during his training. But then I looked inside... and it was beyond what I ever imagined. Snoke had already turned his heart. He would bring destruction, and pain, and death... and the end of everything I love because of what he will become. And for the briefest moment of pure instinct... I thought I could stop it. It passed like a fleeting shadow. And I was left with shame... and with consequence. And the last thing I saw... were the eyes of a frightened boy whose master had failed him.".
    He watched and sensed it building up over time knowing it was happening and by the time it seemed like it had grown too big his first instinct even for the briefest moment was to kill him while he was sleeping to make it stop? I'm sorry but it just seems odd and out of place. There were so many other ways to make Luke flawed and for him to fail than this. I understand and what Johnson was trying to do here and if Ben were not laying in bed sleeping when this instinct came over Luke it would be easier to swallow.

    To me when force projection Luke confronted Ren and basically said I'm not here to save you it was a huge development in his character in that you can't save them all. Just wished that he would have some where tried to save Ben in the story line and failed as opposed to the was thinking about killing him for a moment and that made me feel bad.

    Luke's whole story arc is refuting the "let the past die" idea and that is pretty explicitly telegraphed; from his starting the movie saying the Jedi need to end to ending the movie stating that the line will continue after him.
    I'm not refuting that in the end he had a change of heart. I really like that part of the story. What I'm saying is that in story that has 4 arcs going on at the same time Luke's revelation was lost in the shuffle. It was not that telegraphed if a good number of people walked away from the film thinking that "let the past die" and "to acknowledge the past and its mistakes but don't let it control the future" as being some what on the same path. Even Yoda striking the Jedi Tree Library feeds the "let it die, kill it if you have to" narrative. Yes we know that in the end the books were gone and from his dialogue he knew it too. But the reveal of the books being in the Milenium Falcon at the end was done so subtle that some people missed it (I know because I have to point it out to some). So for people that don't watch the movie over its easy to miss things.

    Again Luke's comeback from the dark place that he shut him self off in is the best part of TLJ, I just I really don't agree with the concept that was created to get him to his low point.


    I think TROS did a pretty darn good job showing that bloodlines weren't that big a deal period. That's kinda the main message of the film.
    And I agree, I think it is a strong contrast from Luke's "I'm a Jedi like my father before me" (Though Anakin was a terrible Jedi and I would not want to be like him). My point was that if not for JJ's "who is she" approach to Rey the idea of bloodlines being an obsession in the movies was not there before there for Johnson's "she is a nobody" was not a direct hit on it.
    Last edited by Moon Ronin; 01-22-2020 at 03:56 PM.
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