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  1. #76
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    Poe wasnít ever that character trope in TFA... He was basically turned into that in TLJ so that he could then be taught a lesson, so kinda pointless.

    Likewise, Rose was pretty much teaching Finn valuable lessons that he didnít really need to learn...he was already a slave of the first order, he didnít need rose to tell him about. Donít get me wrong, rose was a fine enough character in and of herself, but alot of what she was there for was rather pointless.

  2. #77
    Oni of the Ash Moon Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    The OT is still structured on the idea that Darth Vader after all his torture and killing is somehow redeemable. Granted it's Vader alone and nobody else. Vader being a f--k up as an Imperial undoubtedly helps make that idea come across better than it otherwise would have.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Even Lucas admitted that Vader couldn't be truly redeemed.
    What Lucas said about the redemption of Vader

    “Children teach you compassion. They teach you to love unconditionally. Anakin can’t be redeemed for all the pain and suffering he’s caused. He doesn’t right the wrongs, but he stops the horror. The end of the saga is simply Anakin saying, I care about this person, regardless of what it means to me. I will throw away everything that I have, everything that I’ve grown to love—primarily the Emperor—and throw away my life, to save this person. And I’m doing it because he has faith in me; he loves me despite all the horrible things I’ve done.”

    The line in the movie where Luke tells Anakin that he has to save him which intern Anakin tells him that he already has. His redemption was on a personal level between him and his son and not some great look at him he is a good guy now. That sentiment was actually reflected in the Han Solo Ben Solo TROS "Hey kid" moment. Lucas talked about his own experiences as a parent. “Parents try as hard as they can to do the right thing,” he said. “They aren’t purposely out to get you. They don’t want to be Darth Vader. As Luke says, ‘I know there is good in you, and I have faith in you . . . even though the rest of the universe thinks you’re a schmuck.’”

    This is way I have an issue with Luke's slide back that his first intent was to kill Ben in his sleep.
    Last edited by Moon Ronin; 01-28-2020 at 12:32 PM.
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  3. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The scene where Luke milks a space walrus.
    Personally I just think the scene is dumb and doesn't add anything. I think people are more upset about the tent scene when it comes to Luke.

  4. #79

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    I think a lot of these superficial political takes happen because they are quick/cheap to write and they get a lot of clicks...it's time to start ignoring them.

  5. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by hurtlinghurdle View Post
    I think a lot of these superficial political takes happen because they are quick/cheap to write and they get a lot of clicks...it's time to start ignoring them.
    I agree. These clickbait articles happen way too much.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyajenkins View Post
    Poe wasn’t ever that character trope in TFA... He was basically turned into that in TLJ so that he could then be taught a lesson, so kinda pointless.

    Likewise, Rose was pretty much teaching Finn valuable lessons that he didn’t really need to learn...he was already a slave of the first order, he didn’t need rose to tell him about. Don’t get me wrong, rose was a fine enough character in and of herself, but alot of what she was there for was rather pointless.
    I got the impression both Rose and Finn learned something. The 'man who wants to run', to quote Max Kanata, found a cause. Rose went from someone who was slightly fanatical into someone who realised that life was more important than glory.
    I wanted to see where their relationship would go in TROS.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by motherofpearl1 View Post
    I got the impression both Rose and Finn learned something. The 'man who wants to run', to quote Max Kanata, found a cause. Rose went from someone who was slightly fanatical into someone who realised that life was more important than glory.
    I wanted to see where their relationship would go in TROS.
    Seconded.

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  8. #83
    Spectacular Member Valentis's Avatar
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    Another clueless paper telling fans what to like.

  9. #84
    Oni of the Ash Moon Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motherofpearl1 View Post
    I got the impression both Rose and Finn learned something. The 'man who wants to run', to quote Max Kanata, found a cause. Rose went from someone who was slightly fanatical into someone who realised that life was more important than glory.
    I wanted to see where their relationship would go in TROS.
    Its the short time between TFA and TLJ that I really don't like. In the TFA Finn is 'man who wants to run', who is later seen as... 'man who wants to run' in TLJ. I like how all of the other trilogies had a time jump between instalments with people in a different place than we left them.
    And I though that was Poe's story not Rose's (it's not exactly his but an off shoot of it) That life was more important than the mission. Rose just seemed like Finn's "Jiminy Cricket" pointing out this is "good" and this is "bad" along his journey to discover himself as "Rebel Scum". I would agree that for the most part what she did was a pointless narrative in a really unneeded story line.
    As far as the relationship it would seem that it hit a crescendo at the end of TLJ. It was noting like Han and Leia "I love you", "I know" and then torn apart, or Anakin and Padma's forbidden love (but we all knew where that was going...to the Dark Side). I my self was really uninterested in it.
    Last edited by Moon Ronin; 02-07-2020 at 01:06 PM.
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  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    Yikes. https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...tart-trolling/

    TROS invites the perception that it is made with conservative, white and male audiences in mind. After suggesting that there would be a same-sex relationship in TROS, filmmakers included two women kissing in the background of a scene ó a moment easily censored for overseas markets. TROS nearly eliminates the character Rose Tico, played by Asian American actress Kelly Marie Tran, who was the focal point for right-wing hate after her large role in TLJ.

    So much to unpack in this article.
    Is it weird that my immediate response is:

    ďWhy are they defending TLJ from this viewpoint? Itís the one that demoted the black male lead in favor of two different white guys, removed the female leadís spine and actualization for the sake of her having a poorly written pseudo-romance with the Nazi badguy where she mails herself to him so he can let her be tortured as part of his plan to get himself promoted, and put pretty much all its non-white cast members into a sidestory where they do nothing but make a situation worse because theyíre not listening to the paranoid and judge mental new white woman, whom it should be mentioned is also being written inconsistently because sheís a tool to try and deconstruct the Latino actorís now stereotypically hot-headed character.Ē

    Part of my issue with TLJ is that it always feels to me like itís probably exhibit A in how someone with progressive goals can end up expressing benign prejudices and biased expectations that make a regressive movie. I mean, TLJ wants to be a feminist and anti-fascist movie, but itís beset by tokenism, accidental sexism, and is obsessed with angsty white dudesí ďman-painĒ so much it even seems to value and feel more sorrow at a mass murdererís facial scar wound over the black protagonistís life-threatening wounds from TFA, and it feels nothing wrong with asserting that a torturer who violates a womanís mind can be attractive to her within days without him doing so much as even pretend to be sorry for what heís done.

    There is a point to be made about the ugly cesspit of humanity who bellowed and groaned at LFL casting non-white actors in major roles, or making the main character be a young woman.

    But in all the ballyhoo about TROS turning against some of TLJís ideas, it should be remembered itís just following TLJís lead in treating Kylo as Reyís co-protagonist and love interest over Finn, and in almost segregating the cast away from the Force storyline, and that TLJ was the film that featured a climax focused on the fight between two white dudes instead of Rey and Finn.

    I mean, in a way... all those jerks and morons who complained about a black Stormtrooper being the main male character won because of TLJ and TROS.
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