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  1. #16
    Fantastic Member Spidey5640's Avatar
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    Yes, it bothers me...more than I can probably express. Marvel has used this lame cop-out stunt more times than I can count and to me it undermines the credibility of EVERYTHING in the Marvel universe. Literally any death, any bad act by a character can be justified by the use of clones...any writer should be ASHAMED to utilize this concept. It became lame after the first use...

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey5640 View Post
    Yes, it bothers me...more than I can probably express. Marvel has used this lame cop-out stunt more times than I can count and to me it undermines the credibility of EVERYTHING in the Marvel universe. Literally any death, any bad act by a character can be justified by the use of clones...any writer should be ASHAMED to utilize this concept. It became lame after the first use...
    Except no actions here are being placed at the hands of clones. Nat's mind is simply in a new body, nothing more or less.

  3. #18
    Fantastic Member Spidey5640's Avatar
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    She's a clone..as in a copy of the original

  4. #19
    Spectacular Member
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    Not nearly as much as Cap being a fake but hey, it's comics!

  5. #20
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    reality warping stuff is nothing like clones

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    reality warping stuff is nothing like clones
    ur right its worse

  7. #22
    Niffleheim
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    Q: Does it bother anyone that Black Widow is a clone now?

    A: There is no outrage because the readership or BW fandom is mostly not there to make a raucous.

  8. #23
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cth View Post
    Not nearly as much as Cap being a fake but hey, it's comics!
    It's been established, multiple times now, that the current Cap is the real Cap.




    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    reality warping stuff is nothing like clones
    Pretty much this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    ur right its worse
    Um, not to point out the obvious but almost every single character who exists within what we know of as the 616 today is 'reality warped', based off a different 'reality warp', based off the original. Or did we forget that Franklin Richards has had to restore the 616 not once, but twice? The difference between Franklin's powers and Kobik's is negligible.

    Forgot to add that, currently, Tony Stark (with an AI brain) and the X-Men (all of them, the entire group, as a whole) are, themselves, clones. So singling Natasha out does come off as a tad hypocritical.
    Last edited by capandkirby; 01-21-2020 at 09:55 AM.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    Um, not to point out the obvious but almost every single character who exists within what we know of as the 616 today is 'reality warped', based off a different 'reality warp', based off the original. Or did we forget that Franklin Richards has had to restore the 616 not once, but twice? The difference between Franklin's powers and Kobik's is negligible.
    it was a joke

  10. #25
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    it was a joke
    Ah, okay, sorry, my bad.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    Um, not to point out the obvious but almost every single character who exists within what we know of as the 616 today is 'reality warped', based off a different 'reality warp', based off the original. Or did we forget that Franklin Richards has had to restore the 616 not once, but twice? The difference between Franklin's powers and Kobik's is negligible.
    I assure you that Franklin's full power dwarfs Kobik's.

    Forgot to add that, currently, Tony Stark (with an AI brain) and the X-Men (all of them, the entire group, as a whole) are, themselves, clones.
    A lot of the X-people appearing now are still originals and not clones.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    It's been established, multiple times now, that the current Cap is the real Cap.






    Pretty much this.



    Um, not to point out the obvious but almost every single character who exists within what we know of as the 616 today is 'reality warped', based off a different 'reality warp', based off the original. Or did we forget that Franklin Richards has had to restore the 616 not once, but twice? The difference between Franklin's powers and Kobik's is negligible.

    Forgot to add that, currently, Tony Stark (with an AI brain) and the X-Men (all of them, the entire group, as a whole) are, themselves, clones. So singling Natasha out does come off as a tad hypocritical.
    I appreciate they tell us this

    But external observations show this isn't true

    He was crafted from the cubes power from that memory

    But it's still a new cap crafted by the cube based on the extracted memory

    True in spirit perhaps but certainly not in body

    Whether that's important or not is up to the individual I suppose

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by kilderkin View Post
    I appreciate they tell us this

    But external observations show this isn't true

    He was crafted from the cubes power from that memory

    But it's still a new cap crafted by the cube based on the extracted memory

    True in spirit perhaps but certainly not in body

    Whether that's important or not is up to the individual I suppose
    That's how I view it all as I truly do not think that the current Cap we have is the real one and that the real one was lost in the mind of Hydra Steve Rogers.

  14. #29
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davew128 View Post
    I assure you that Franklin's full power dwarfs Kobik's.

    A lot of the X-people appearing now are still originals and not clones.
    Kobik is the living embodiment of the cosmic cube, so that may be debatable.

    Still, most of the X-Men are. Particularly all of the big names. So the point still stands. You can't pick and choose which clones you accept and which you deny on the basis of their cloneness when the fact of the matter is that Marvel has SEVERAL clones walking around right now, on top of the fact that every single character in the 616, with only one or two exceptions, is a reality-bended duplicate (of a duplicate). To single Natasha out is hypocritical. Point-blank, period.

  15. #30
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    X-men also did this recently of course, although in a few cases it goes back to Professor X in the 80's. The "original" Professor X body died at the end of the Brood saga.


    It can be argued that part of the Hulk is a clone now. There was the storyline post Fear Itself where Banner and Hulk (Who was more or less Green scar at this point, although "Indestructible" had the savage again). were successfully separated by Dr. Doom, but in order for it to work Banner's body was cloned, without all the gamma stuff (Bruce tried to irridiate himself but it only caused other problems). However, the "clone" Bruce eventually was absorbed into the Hulk, restoring the Banner/Hulk balance.
    Last edited by ChrisIII; 01-21-2020 at 12:35 PM.
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