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  1. #1
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    Default Cassie Sandsmark (Origin etc.)

    Hello,

    Cassie is one of my favorite DC Characters.

    I liked her old Origin as daughter of Zeus and Diana made out of Clay.
    I hope that they get one day back to this and make more out of this Origin.

    One of the big problems which I had with Cassie was that even she was the DAUGHTER OF ZEUS they made "only" a kind Street Level Wonder Woman in Jeans out of her.

    It would be cool to give her also Electrokinesis, since she is the daughter of Zeus.
    Jason, Dianas Twin Brother, also had this power among others.

    I strictly believe that this would help her to become more popular and it would also help her to make her different than Diana and Donna and help her to overcome the gap between her and Diana and Donna, since the 2 are more experienced and are better trained than her.

    It would basically make a kind of female Thor out of her.

    I loved her Titans of Tomorrow Look in Rebirth and with Electrokinesis she would be cool and unique.

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    The issue is the fact can we even call her Wonder girl? She has no connections to Diana. The same with Donna

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    The issue is the fact can we even call her Wonder girl? She has no connections to Diana. The same with Donna
    Wrong.....

    Cassie was ALWAYS related to Diana....

    In Pre-Flashpoint they were related trough ARES and in NEW52 Cassie was Dianas niece....

  4. #4
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Yeah, Diana was only clay origin pre-Crisis. Post-Crisis, including in subsequent retcons, Diana has some form of relationship to the Olympian pantheon, and so does Cassie (Donna's related to the Titans of Myth instead, and she did stop calling herself Wonder Girl when she found this out, being Troia or completely codenameless ever since). Since Cassie debuted post-Crisis, she and Diana have always been connected.
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  5. #5
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    I like Diana being the daughter of Zeus.

    Cassie could be the daughter of any other Olymian god...or a Titan of Myth.

    I would give Diana's golem origin to Donna and be done with it...maybe having her blessed by the Titanesses instead of the Greek goddesses.

  6. #6
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    I like the original origin of Cassie (before the idea of Zeus as her father was introduced). I think it's much more empowering for her pursue powers. And being the child of Zeus is hardly unique in mythology.

    Very much prefer Diana not Zeus' child either, but made of clay. It's even worse with her, because she's all about women, and that origin makes her importance come from her father (a man), rather than the mother who raised her the goddess who imbued her with life. Hell, making Hippolyta a secret goddess in disguise would be better (and I don't like that, either). Also, I like all Amazons having same powers as they did for a long period of time.

    There's no need for Cassie to be related to Diana - plenty of "hero families" have members with no shared blood lines.

    I really hate characters being retconned as prophesied or divine - it's like a giant neon sign saying "look the character is SPECIAL!!!" instead of developing and working with the existing character to make them special through their actions.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 01-22-2020 at 07:32 PM.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Yeah, Diana was only clay origin pre-Crisis. Post-Crisis, including in subsequent retcons, Diana has some form of relationship to the Olympian pantheon...
    Diana most definitely had the clay origin post-Crisis on Infinite Earths. In fact, it persisted until The New 52. (Admittedly, I'm not sure we knew what her origin was in Flashpoint.)

    She's had "some form of relationship to the Olympian pantheon" since her debut in 1941, when Aphrodite was the one who brought the clay sculpture to life. But that did not contradict the clay origin (it was part of it), and she was not a biological child of a Greek deity until The New 52.

    (John Byrne did declare that Ares was Hippolyta's father. That matches some of the classical myths, but did not in any way match Wonder Woman's continuity at the time - not that that was of importance to Byrne. But Diana had been created from clay sculpture even in that version, as far as we could tell, so it still didn't make her a biological descendant of a Greek deity.)
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  8. #8
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    No mention of the clay origin here (JLA Secret Origins, published when Superman was in his Electric Blue form), instead it just says she's Hippolyta's daughter and that she was raised as a warrior princess.
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  9. #9
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    No mention of the clay origin here (JLA Secret Origins, published when Superman was in his Electric Blue form), instead it just says she's Hippolyta's daughter and that she was raised as a warrior princess.
    Doesn't matter, she was still made from clay. She's wearing her John Byrne armor and he had a storyline which emphasized her clay origin (and that of the other Amazons) in his Gardens of Stone arc.

    WW BYRNE.jpg

    And she was never, ever, a "golem". It's been specifically stated in multiple ways that she had a soul and her own autonomy like Adam and Eve.

    Cassie as daughter of Zeus fit and worked well with her character.
    Last edited by Koriand'r; 01-23-2020 at 09:07 PM.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    No mention of the clay origin here...
    The lack of mention does not affect the fact that Diana's clay origin was the one in continuity at the time, with no alternative story challenging it.

    It doesn't mention Steve Trevor crash-landing on the island (or at all). That doesn't mean he didn't (or that he doesn't exist).
    Doctor Bifrost

    "If Roy G. Bivolo had seen some B&W pencil sketches, his whole life would have turned out differently." http://doctorbifrost.blogspot.com/

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I like the original origin of Cassie (before the idea of Zeus as her father was introduced). I think it's much more empowering for her pursue powers. And being the child of Zeus is hardly unique in mythology.

    Very much prefer Diana not Zeus' child either, but made of clay. It's even worse with her, because she's all about women, and that origin makes her importance come from her father (a man), rather than the mother who raised her the goddess who imbued her with life. Hell, making Hippolyta a secret goddess in disguise would be better (and I don't like that, either). Also, I like all Amazons having same powers as they did for a long period of time.

    There's no need for Cassie to be related to Diana - plenty of "hero families" have members with no shared blood lines.

    I really hate characters being retconned as prophesied or divine - it's like a giant neon sign saying "look the character is SPECIAL!!!" instead of developing and working with the existing character to make them special through their actions.
    I REALLY HATE this Powers given by special items Origins so I am glad that they changed it to "daughter of Zeus".

    In Dianas Case I liked the original origin, especially she is probably DC most OP Character.
    She is as powerful as Clark AND!!!! she has the Amazon Training AND!!!! unlike Clark with his Kryptonite Weakness she has no natural Weakness...

    Making Diana the daughter of Zeus is really unnecessary, as she is already the Princess, one of the most OP Characters in DC etc. etc. etc. etc.


    For Cassie instead it was necessary, because it made her unique (at this time there were few kids of Zeus)...She didnt have all this Amazon Training, so it helped her to become kind of equal..

    AND! I also strictly believe that if DC would have given Cassie Electrokinesis Powers with the look of the ToT Cassie she would be a more interesting character and also would have become more popular than Supergirl and probably Diana..

  12. #12
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    I REALLY HATE this Powers given by special items Origins so I am glad that they changed it to "daughter of Zeus"
    I liked when she used special items, because she wanted it so much, then asked a god (I'd have preferred Aphrodite to Zeus, since she was their patron originally) and was granted Amazon powers. No retcon needed, and items no longer needed items. And it's so much more proactive, more heroic. She made it happen, and that's way more awesome.

    She is as powerful as Clark AND!!!! she has the Amazon Training AND!!!! unlike Clark with his Kryptonite Weakness she has no natural Weakness...
    That's not a good thing for me. I'm on record as liking lots of characters (including Clark, Barry, Kon, Bart, Wally, Hal, etc.) as less than their max power levels in comics (usually power levels they had earlier). I don't want gods, I want heroes, and I like weaknesses (though not the bondage one). And I find the high power levels lend themselves to "event" type stories with mass death and destruction, which isn't my thing.

    For Cassie instead it was necessary, because it made her unique (at this time there were few kids of Zeus)...She didnt have all this Amazon Training, so it helped her to become kind of equal..
    Zeus has tons of kids in mythology, and that's what I meant by it not being unique. If they wanted her on more equal footing they could have made her work for it. Develop it through her pursuing training (which we saw some of) or other avenues. Good potential for character development, too. That's what I explicitly don't like about retconned divinity or prophecies or whatnot - they are a shortcut to making the character "special" or "important" (relative to other heroes, especially within the "family") instead of doing the long-term work of developing the character and making their actions and achievements earn them equal footing. I feel similarly about retconned personal relationships - either romances or ones with villains. They are used when a writer just wants to declare a relationship between two characters important and worthy of us caring about instead of developing the relationship from the ground up, which would make me invest my emotions a lot more.

    Cassie was already awesome and growing and didn't a need special-god-sticker. And it didn't make her any more impressive or interesting.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 01-24-2020 at 04:28 PM.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Bifrost View Post
    Diana most definitely had the clay origin post-Crisis on Infinite Earths. In fact, it persisted until The New 52. (Admittedly, I'm not sure we knew what her origin was in Flashpoint.)

    She's had "some form of relationship to the Olympian pantheon" since her debut in 1941, when Aphrodite was the one who brought the clay sculpture to life. But that did not contradict the clay origin (it was part of it), and she was not a biological child of a Greek deity until The New 52.

    (John Byrne did declare that Ares was Hippolyta's father. That matches some of the classical myths, but did not in any way match Wonder Woman's continuity at the time - not that that was of importance to Byrne. But Diana had been created from clay sculpture even in that version, as far as we could tell, so it still didn't make her a biological descendant of a Greek deity.)
    DCAU had Diana as a sorta-daughter of Hades. Apparently Hades helped Hippolyta sculpt her or something.

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