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  1. #91
    Spectacular Member Spidey_62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Nothing of Chabon’s stuff is there in the final draft.

    His idea was Ock being Peter’s age, a romantic rival for MJ, wasn’t used. A whole bunch of stuff wasn’t used.
    I think Chabon's script had Spider-Man in a spine removal chair in the climax lol.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Force League Unlimited View Post
    I did mention that it's usually one or two hits an issue, and most cases have these punches a few days apart, and they are more phased out than being a total punching bag for an entire fight.
    Even one or two punches should be more severe.


    Aha, tentacles whispering are totally controlling him, that's why he easily told them to listen to him once he had a change of heart.
    You’re exaggerating.
    I did mention the ones in the first movie.
    Yeah, I’m aware of which thugs you meant. Since it seems you have trouble remembering how that fight went
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsBTeoNf1OY
    These “well trained fighters” you were talking about are completely non-existent in the film.

    In the same night MJ was kidnapped and a bridge accident happened. It should make Harry at least wonder with his obsession as how did this happen when his father should not be near the sight of the fight.
    Imagine that, a Spider-Man villain being irrational and not thinking clearly. Harry had more reason to hate Spider-Man than in the comics were his paranoia makes him think Peter was conspiring against him.


    Jonah Jameson, a couple of cops, and one truck driver. The rest were like that one chick from Spider-Man 2 "GO SPIDEY GO" cheering for him.
    I can turn this around and claim that the “go spidey go” chick is the only one who liked him. We see only a handful of ordinary citizens’ reaction throughout these films but it’s clear not everyone likes him.



    When did you start mention power loss about Green Goblin? I think a few ideas crossed for you.
    Not that would be you. This was the comment I responded to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Force League Unlimited View Post

    Power loss and reactivation is dumb.



    The comics are more believable than the movie,
    Ah yes, the same comics were Electro gained super powers after being struck by lightning while handling power lines, an old man in a flying harness repeatedly survives getting the crap kicked out of him, being fat makes you super strong and a college kid with a drug problem and serious mental health issues becomes a criminal mastermind.
    Give me a break.

  3. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Even one or two punches should be more severe.
    True, even more severe to the film version.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    You’re exaggerating.
    I confess exaggerating, cause they were talking in his mind instead of whispering.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Yeah, I’m aware of which thugs you meant. Since it seems you have trouble remembering how that fight went
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsBTeoNf1OY
    These “well trained fighters” you were talking about are completely non-existent in the film.
    Even if I was assuming them being fighters, they still have more physical presence than pudgy Ock.


    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Imagine that, a Spider-Man villain being irrational and not thinking clearly. Harry had more reason to hate Spider-Man than in the comics were his paranoia makes him think Peter was conspiring against him.
    Two years of holding a grudge and keeping constant track of the target of your hate. TWO.. YEARS.


    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I can turn this around and claim that the “go spidey go” chick is the only one who liked him. We see only a handful of ordinary citizens’ reaction throughout these films but it’s clear not everyone likes him.
    People shout his name, people want to hang with him, people protect him, people cheer for him in the news... handful of people for a giant.


    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Not that would be you. This was the comment I responded to.
    And you mentioned Harry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Ah yes, the same comics were Electro gained super powers after being struck by lightning while handling power lines, an old man in a flying harness repeatedly survives getting the crap kicked out of him, being fat makes you super strong and a college kid with a drug problem and serious mental health issues becomes a criminal mastermind.
    Give me a break.
    I didn't say they're not stupid, they still make more sense than movie Ock being the punching bag he is in the movie.
    Here's another reason Ock enduring attacks in the movie is so dumb: Before evil Ock he was shocked by too many volts during a daytime showing of his experiment and remained unconscious for so many hours and kept his tentacles deactivated for a few minutes less, next time he gets shocked (in what I assume is the same amount of power) he rises up in a matter of minutes like nothing happened, and the second shock happened after he received multiple blows from the guy who managed to stop a fast movie heavy train using his body.


    And guess how many blows in total for thirty years Spider-Man landed on Adrian Toomes? 15 blows in 30 years of multiple appearances, most of them are in close proximity, 3 or 4 from distance attacks that should realistically kill the old man. But what did I say? Cheesy comics from the 60s and 70s are more believable than a movie, not believable, just far less stupid than the movie.

    I've never said Electro's origin was anything less than dumb, I could never take it seriously and make fun of every iteration and time of it.

    And as for Harry being weakened from his drug addiction and what happened afterwards.. that was Gerry Conway's bad decision at the time. Just cause I said the character us dumb on film I did not say his story was clever on page, I was focusing solely on Ock's vulnerability being handled much more plausibly on page compared to his film counterpart.
    As for Harry hating Spider-Man, at least on page he had a short period of time and a closer look-up between the "death" of his father and him inheriting the mask and his mind was clouded, so on these two notes it makes less sense that a more sensible Harry with more time and more focus on his quest did not think for a second that he was harsh on blaming Spider-Man.

    Why am I defending comics Harry now?



    Spider-Man 2 is the dumbest movie in the Raimi franchise because it's dumb. It's dumber than cheesy comics of old, it's dumber than the Amazing Spider-Man 2, it's just... dumb.




    You happy? You made me read old comics to evaluate your debate, and I see myself sticking stronger to the idea that Spider-Man 2 is a dumb movie all around. It's dumb, it's stupid, it's hokey, it's..... the entry with the best CGI in the entire trilogy, I guess I'll praise this much.
    TRUTH, JUSTICE, HOPE
    That is, the heritage of the Kryptonian Warrior: Kal-El, son of Jor-El
    You like Gameboy and NDS? - My channel
    Looks like I'll have to move past gameplay footage

  4. #94
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Guys, you're obviously not going to change his opinion about Spider-man 2. There's no point is arguing about it.

    Even if he is completely and utterly wrong.

  5. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Guys, you're obviously not going to change his opinion about Spider-man 2. There's no point is arguing about it.

    Even if he is completely and utterly wrong.
    Hehehe.

    You're right about the upper line.
    Last edited by Speed Force League Unlimited; 03-12-2020 at 05:24 AM.
    TRUTH, JUSTICE, HOPE
    That is, the heritage of the Kryptonian Warrior: Kal-El, son of Jor-El
    You like Gameboy and NDS? - My channel
    Looks like I'll have to move past gameplay footage

  6. #96
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Nothing of Chabon’s stuff is there in the final draft.

    His idea was Ock being Peter’s age, a romantic rival for MJ, wasn’t used. A whole bunch of stuff wasn’t used.
    Damn. All those years...

  7. #97
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Force League Unlimited View Post
    Hehehe.

    You're right about the first part.
    Doesn't change the fact, that I enjoy your posts

  8. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    Doesn't change the fact, that I enjoy your posts
    Thank you, kind sir.
    TRUTH, JUSTICE, HOPE
    That is, the heritage of the Kryptonian Warrior: Kal-El, son of Jor-El
    You like Gameboy and NDS? - My channel
    Looks like I'll have to move past gameplay footage

  9. #99
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    I love how the AI tentacles were used in Spider-Man 2.

    My interpretation is that Ock is still responsible for his actions, but each tentacle has its own personality that's a representation of different aspects of Ock's mind. So at the film's conclusion he's essentially arguing with himself.

  10. #100
    Spectacular Member Spidey_62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    I love how the AI tentacles were used in Spider-Man 2.

    My interpretation is that Ock is still responsible for his actions, but each tentacle has its own personality that's a representation of different aspects of Ock's mind. So at the film's conclusion he's essentially arguing with himself.
    That is how I take it too, because even before we're told the AI affects his mind/inhibitor chip gets fried, we see him acting pretty callously disregarding the safety of people if his work is jeopardized: not shutting the thing down in the first place, not listening to Peter's comment, HITTING Spider-Man when he tries to shut things down. It's not like he was a perfect dude that just got in a bad accident. He has the perfect life in Peter's eyes, but he loses it because of his hubris/pride. It's really good stuff to me.
    Last edited by Spidey_62; 03-13-2020 at 02:57 AM.

  11. #101
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey_62 View Post
    That is how I take it too, because even before we're told the AI affects his mind/inhibitor chip gets fried, we see him acting pretty callously disregarding the safety of people if his work is jeopardized: not shutting the thing down in the first place, not listening to Peter's comment, HITTING Spider-Man when he tries to shut things down. It's not like he was a perfect dude that just got in a bad accident. He has the perfect life in Peter's eyes, but he loses it because of his hubris/pride. It's really good stuff to me.
    Yeah, exactly. Which is pretty consistent with the Lee/Ditko version--even before the accident, Otto Octavius is depicted as a cold man who keeps people at a distance. He was always deeply flawed, it's just the brain damage/inhibitor chip failure heightened those flaws.

    So the major difference is that Otto isn't as distant before the accident as he is in the comics--but the way the accident amplifies his already present flaws is spot-on.

  12. #102
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Yah, the arms were just an extension of Ock, thats exactly how I saw it. All in his mind. It would not make sense to ascribe them any independent intelligence because that is not how they were constructed.

    In the comics, the bracing he wore around his torso allowed him to control the arms by using his hands. Then when the accident happened, something melded that bracing to his body and mind, so that the arms became a part of him. The movie also made the arms be a part of him.

    Same thing really.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  13. #103
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    1. Great
    2. Really good up til "But Dr Octavius...I'm really Peter Parker...and can't you just be a good guy and save the world."
    3. The dumpster fire that all dumpster fires aspire to.

  14. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    1. Great
    2. Really good up til "But Dr Octavius...I'm really Peter Parker...and can't you just be a good guy and save the world."
    3. The dumpster fire that all dumpster fires aspire to.
    That's too harsh, you'd think this was used to describe stuff like Schumacher's Batman, Catwoman (not a CBM), one of the Fantastic Four movies, Wolverine Origins, Man-Thing, or Punisher Warzone.

    Spider-Man 3 is far better than any of these entries, even with its silliness and awkward moments it is still too competently written and made to deserve being placed that low.
    TRUTH, JUSTICE, HOPE
    That is, the heritage of the Kryptonian Warrior: Kal-El, son of Jor-El
    You like Gameboy and NDS? - My channel
    Looks like I'll have to move past gameplay footage

  15. #105
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Force League Unlimited View Post
    That's too harsh, you'd think this was used to describe stuff like Schumacher's Batman, Catwoman (not a CBM), one of the Fantastic Four movies, Wolverine Origins, Man-Thing, or Punisher Warzone.

    Spider-Man 3 is far better than any of these entries, even with its silliness and awkward moments it is still too competently written and made to deserve being placed that low.
    Spider-Man 3 being better than those is kinda the point of the ‘dumpster fire that all dumpster fires aspire to be’

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