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  1. #46
    Condescending Member manymade1's Avatar
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    Peter saving the girl trapped in the fire in SM2 has captured the essence of what it means to be a superhero, better than any other comic book movie.

    What I loved about the Raimi movies was that it actually gave time to developing Peter's personal life. He wasn't just Spider-Man. He had an awesome supporting cast with actual development and we saw him actually struggle.

    Now it could be argued that we saw him struggle a bit too much. I really hated how melodramatic the movies could be at times, especially when it came to Peter & MJ. Tone wise, I actually think I prefer the MCU Spider-Man movies, but overall, I think Raimi's SM 1 & 2 are much better films.

  2. #47
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manymade1 View Post
    Peter saving the girl trapped in the fire in SM2 has captured the essence of what it means to be a superhero, better than any other comic book movie.

    What I loved about the Raimi movies was that it actually gave time to developing Peter's personal life. He wasn't just Spider-Man. He had an awesome supporting cast with actual development and we saw him actually struggle.

    Now it could be argued that we saw him struggle a bit too much. I really hated how melodramatic the movies could be at times, especially when it came to Peter & MJ. Tone wise, I actually think I prefer the MCU Spider-Man movies, but overall, I think Raimi's SM 1 & 2 are much better films.
    Raimi gives the best sense of the toll being Spider-Man takes on Peter's personal life.

  3. #48
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    You make a good point. Perhaps I've been unfair to the butler.
    Thanks for the positive reception r.e. that theory.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    I guess after the "Osborn butler, part-time forensic scientist" spinoff got cancelled, there was no point...
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  4. #49
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    I wish they would have gone with the idea that the Osborn butler was a figment of Harry's imagination. It would have made Harry's mental state that much clearer. As it is, the butler comes across as a bit of an ass for waiting until Harry had nearly destroyed himself and the people he loved to tell him that his father's wounds were self-inflicted. Additionally, I'm not sure the butler's explanation actually lets Spidey off the hook unless you saw the way things played out. The wounds would appear the same whether Osborn himself initiated the glider accident or if Spider-Man had just taken the glider and impaled him with it. But it does make sense as a mental projection of Harry's faith in Peter.)
    In the comics, Spider-Man just changed back into Peter Parker and let the cops handle everything. Rather than stick around and take responsibility, he really fled in a cowardly fashion from it all. Conway had Peter do something an emotionally distraught person might do. And still there lingered a question about exactly how Norman and Gwen had died. I vaguely recall that the police eventually concluded that Norman's death was accidental.

    Since no one in the movie died except Norman, the emotional stakes were different. So Spider-Man meddles with the crime scene, removing Norman's body and taking him home. Supposedly from good intentions. Perhaps he thought it would be best if the general public didn't know about Norman's dual identity, for the sake of his friend Harry. But of course we see how that played out. The butler thing made no sense - he's not a professional CSI person, so how could he have known how Norman had died just by looking at the body? But Raimi needed a way for Harry to find out the truth and he had written himself into a corner, with the best intentions.

    Its a pretty minor scene that gets us emotionally where we need to go, so I don't mind it. Certainly not as bad of a crime as the Bat Credit Card or a myriad of similar idiot stuff in lots of superhero movies.
    Last edited by Scott Taylor; 02-06-2020 at 11:34 AM.
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  5. #50
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    In the comics, Spider-Man just changed back into Peter Parker and let the cops handle everything. Rather than stick around and take responsibility, he really fled in a cowardly fashion from it all. Conway had Peter do something an emotionally distraught person might do. And still there lingered a question about exactly how Norman and Gwen had died. I vaguely recall that the police eventually concluded that Norman's death was accidental.
    Sticking around would have ended up with him going to prison, since Spider-Man was wanted at the time. He did actually have a conversation with the police officers but you're right about being emotionally distraught. When they asked what happened, he said "Spider-Man killed her" meaning he felt responsible for what happened. But of course they took it as him confessing to murder.


    Since no one in the movie died except Norman, the emotional stakes were different. So Spider-Man meddles with the crime scene, removing Norman's body and taking him home. Supposedly from good intentions. Perhaps he thought it would be best if the general public didn't know about Norman's dual identity, for the sake of his friend Harry. But of course we see how that played out.
    This makes me think of Chip Zdarsky's LIFE STORY and how things play out so differently because of one phone call...

    The butler thing made no sense - he's not a professional CSI person, so how could he have known how Norman had died just by looking at the body? But Raimi needed a way for Harry to find out the truth and he had written himself into a corner, with the best intentions.

    Its a pretty minor scene that gets us emotionally where we need to go, so I don't mind it. Certainly not as bad of a crime as the Bat Credit Card or a myriad of similar idiot stuff in lots of superhero movies.
    Yeah, I don't mind it either. Would have preferred the imaginary butler, but either way you're right. It's just intended as the emotional catalyst for Harry to re-affirm his friendship with Peter. It doesn't matter if the butler's logic isn't credible because it's about Harry's faith in Peter not the forensics.

  6. #51
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    Spider-man 1: Of all the Spider-Man films to date, this one is probably the "truest" to the source material. It essentially functions as a "Spider-Man's greatest hits" movie by mixing and matching elements of Spider-Man's origin story, the origins of the Green Goblin, the Night Gwen Stacy Died/The Goblins last Stand, Peter's relationship with Mary Jane (who herself functions as an amalgam of MJ, Liz Allan, and Gwen Stacy in this film), a supporting cast consisting of the Bugle staff, Harry, Flash, Aunt May, Uncle Ben, etc. However, the effects in this one are incredibly dated, and the odd design choice for the Green Goblin hampers what is otherwise a great portrayal.

    Spider-man 2: This film departs from the source material more than the first, but overall it's a stronger film. The plot is tighter, the pacing is better, the action is bigger and more engaging, and the effects are incredible and still hold up well. This is the one that I've rewatched the most.

    Spider-man 3: Disjointed plot that introduces too many new elements rather than working with existing ones. All over the map tonally. Haven't seen it in years and don't really care to look back.
    Last edited by Spider-Tiger; 02-06-2020 at 03:16 PM.

  7. #52
    Condescending Member manymade1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Tiger View Post
    Spider-man 3: Disjointed plot that introduces too many new elements rather than working with existing ones. All over the map tonally. Haven't seen it in years and don't really care to look back.
    It's honestly worth rewatching just to have a good laugh. Rewatched it last year and I found myself laughing even more than I would at a comedy movie.

  8. #53
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    In the comics, Spider-Man just changed back into Peter Parker and let the cops handle everything. Rather than stick around and take responsibility, he really fled in a cowardly fashion from it all.
    Peter had given Norman a second chance back in ASM#40, and now 82 issues later, Norman spat poison on his mercy. He doesn't owe a single damn thing to any of the Osborns after that.

    I think at the end of Spider-Man 1, Raimi and the writers mashed together ASM#40 with ASM#122 since Peter gave Norman a second chance the first time out of concern for Harry while at the end of the movie, Peter decides to hide Norman's misdeeds out of concern for Harry. In both instances, the good intentions backfired horribly, setting into motion events that would get Gwen killed (comics), and get Harry killed (movies).
    Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 02-06-2020 at 06:18 PM.

  9. #54
    Mighty Member Johnny Thunders!'s Avatar
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    I think the Spiderman trilogy is uniformly excellent. Willem Dafoe acts through that Green Goblin mask and I would take him back for the role in a minute. Spiderman 2 has that train scene, and even Spiderman 3 gives the Sandman respect. Sam Raimi coming to Dr. Strange 2 is unbelievably awesome!

  10. #55
    Incredible Member Dr. Skeleton's Avatar
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    Loved the first two, but part 3 really dropped the ball. Even though people wanna defend Raimi saying he never wanted Venom in the movie, half the things was all him although I don't know which ones. Making Sandman Uncle Ben's true killer, how Harry was as the Green Goblin, Peter being a dancing idiot due to the "symbiote's influence, Peter planting one of Gwen Stacy while knowing that MJ was watching, and....Peter hitting MJ. I just can't find myself watching any other Spidey movies after this, it was that bad for me.

  11. #56

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    I still have no reason to complain about the raised webbing, it's great garnish for the film costume, and looks brilliant in games either based on these movies or ones that came after the trilogy ended.

    Spider-Man trilogy did not deliver the ideal take on Peter Parker, but it is still better than what MCU is doing to the character.
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  12. #57
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Force League Unlimited View Post
    Spider-Man trilogy did not deliver the ideal take on Peter Parker, but it is still better than what MCU is doing to the character.
    It is nice that there is a trilogy to point to that truly establishes the basics of Peter Parker, rather than running from them like the MCU does or horribly misunderstanding them like in the ASM duology.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  13. #58
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    First movie-A fun if flawed film. Not quite a great as many seem to think, but still really enjoyable. Willem Dafoe makes for a delightfully hammy performance, although GG isn't an especially well-written character in that film.

    Second film-Great. The Peter/MJ stuff being it's only notable flaw, Also a great sympathetic villain in Doc Ock.

    Third film-A mess, but a mess with some ambition to it at least.

  14. #59
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    fun at the time, hasn't dated well IMO.

  15. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    It is nice that there is a trilogy to point to that truly establishes the basics of Peter Parker, rather than running from them like the MCU does or horribly misunderstanding them like in the ASM duology.
    I did not feel like including them -especially part 1- cause that felt like something that goes without saying.
    TRUTH, JUSTICE, HOPE
    That is, the heritage of the Kryptonian Warrior: Kal-El, son of Jor-El
    You like Gameboy and NDS? - My channel
    Looks like I'll have to move past gameplay footage

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