Marauders #6 Spoilers

[Tycon]

After a while, it's fun to see bad guys win. Given the pansy times of "good always triumphing over evil." Which we all know is BS.

You mean almost every story in fiction?

[Silver Fang]

You mean almost every story in fiction?

I've seen plenty of stories where bad guys win in the end. Or at the very least, even if they lost the wars, they won plenty of battles. Compared to the stale stories where the bad guys are outclassed from start to finished, making them look like pu**ies.

The threat of villains winning is what makes stories engaging, imo. That's what runs emotions high. But one-sided stories where damn near all the enemies are fodder, we may as well not even have them. lol

[Michael Watkins]

i wonder if they could bring Kitty back with Shinobi's x-gene (like how Sinister returned with John Proudstar as the template).

[Tycon]

I've seen plenty of stories where bad guys win in the end. Or at the very least, even if they lost the wars, they won plenty of battles. Compared to the stale stories where the bad guys are outclassed from start to finished, making them look like pu**ies.

Pussies. Pansies. Such harsh words for our heroes. Anyway, yeah the whole concept of “good always triumphs over evil” is that even if the bad guy makes a major difference by winning a landmark battle or something, in the end the hero will always win. That’s why stories like Empire Strikes Back and The Last Jedi are literally followed up by films where the heroes proceed to utterly destroy the bad guys and/or redeem that in .05 seconds.

[Silver Fang]

Pussies. Pansies. Such harsh words for our heroes. Anyway, yeah the whole concept of “good always triumphs over evil” is that even if the bad guy makes a major difference by winning a landmark battle or something, in the end the hero will always win. That’s why stories like Empire Strikes Back and The Last Jedi are literally followed up by films where the heroes proceed to utterly destroy the bad guys and/or redeem that in .05 seconds.

Lets reference a cult classic of what happened to one of our so-called heroes at the end of a film.lol

And this is still the only horror film that ever scared me. Sadly we don't know if the villain will win in the end because the franchise is in Development Hell due to terrible controversy with creator, Victor Salva. But the baddie of these films is legit intelligent & dangerous. And he's won, lost, and tied.

So I still maintain stories are better when heroes & villains are evenly matched. Sometimes the baddie wins. Sometimes they lose. Neither side complete eclipsing the other is good imo. For example Wolverine is a CLASSIC example of a Mary Sue (or Marty Stu). Meanwhile Mystique is an example of a Villain Sue -anyone opposing or around them tends to be second-rate and as a result, I hate both of them. But they're around to stay and continue Sue-ing it up. So just have to avoid & evade.

Shaw is like Jobbertooth. He's been a joke so long, some fans actually wanna see him be competent again, win a few battles, and have things under control, instead of constantly being a chew toy for Emma when he used to be a legit rival to her. And Kitty has been obnoxious & getting away with it so long, some may enjoy seeing her die a few times.

[Tycon]

Shaw is an abusive monster who uses his connections and powers to groom young women into becoming his loyalists. He’s literal scum. He’s been “winning” against Emma for most of their shared history together. Emma always wins because she’s the smarter mind of the two and it has nothing to do with Shaw being “pussified.” Usually Shaw is pretty adept at sussing our plans but there’s always an unknown benefactor or save that precedes his downfall. Even in X-Men Black, we see that while Shaw was dealing with Mothervine and running the Hellfire Club, Emma was an opportunity when the whole thing backfired and Magneto destabilized most of the charter clubs. That had nothing to do with being jobbed or beta’d or pussified or pansied, it was simple a smart use of the most opportune time.

[Silver Fang]

X-Black, I mainly recall Emma killing him with relative ease. So anything before is moot imo. You gotta stick your landing. lol

Our opinions on characters & story will always differ, so we'd have to agree to disagree here. I am of the mindset that majority of the X-Men villains suck. Until they turn good. lol The Rogue's Gallery needs a lot of work in general.

[The tall man]

Well she's got 50 years exclusive on drugs distribution. She could shut down the economy at the base of the Krakoan international recognition if she wanted. She does have some power (even Hickman said it).

Are you happy for Shaw or for the plot getting a more interesting rival?

Happy that Shaw is relevant again and being a force. For far to long he was seen as a joke similar to how Sabretooth is now. And in this era where practically every x-villian is now basically a good guy its refreshing to see one still being bad and being a credible threat. Shaw is a great character and deserves more than being a joke or a jobber. He should be a force and a powerful enemy, one can only hope that Sabretooth gets a resurgence back to villian prominence again.

Doubtful Emma can shutdown Krakoa's economy. Xavier is richer than her, owns the companies that produces the drugs and there are other wealthy mutants who can step in to replace Emma as head of transportation. Roberto, Warren, Shan or even Shaw himself. And as far as the political front, Ororo, Jean or Magneto could step in as ambassador. Outside of Moira, Xavier, Doug and the Five and certain replacements no one is essential to Krakoa.

[Michael Watkins]

Lets reference a cult classic of what happened to one of our so-called heroes at the end of a film.lol

And this is still the only horror film that ever scared me. Sadly we don't know if the villain will win in the end because the franchise is in Development Hell due to terrible controversy with creator, Victor Salva. But the baddie of these films is legit intelligent & dangerous. And he's won, lost, and tied.

eh. the first one was decent. but they blew it with the 3rd movie. not everything needs an explanation. and it's impossible to ignore the salva controversy. there's too much of him in the Creeper (the monster literally sniffs underwear in the first movie).

[ExodusCloak]

Emma and Kitty have a psychic rapport so hopefully the absence is noted

[Silver Fang]

Happy that Shaw is relevant again and being a force. For far to long he was seen as a joke similar to how Sabretooth is now. And in this era where practically every x-villian is now basically a good guy its refreshing to see one still being bad and being a credible threat. Shaw is a great character and deserves more than being a joke or a jobber. He should be a force and a powerful enemy, one can only hope that Sabretooth gets a resurgence back to villain prominence again.

Well given how even Tieri, who wrote one of the best villain Sabretooths in 2002 had him as a jobbing afterthought in Ravencroft, I'd say don't count on that. lol Even more points lost that he chose to follow up on Gillen's Origins mess of all things.I only watched 1 vid review, but it was enough to let me know not to waste moments of life reading it.

But good it seems like Duggan is doing right by one villain who may be a threat again & not a jobber tossed in the trash effortlessly.

eh. the first one was decent. but they blew it with the 3rd movie. not everything needs an explanation. and it's impossible to ignore the salva controversy. there's too much of him in the Creeper (the monster literally sniffs underwear in the first movie).

I skipped out on the third when I found out it was gonna be police / Military vs. Monster. Never cared for those. I just watched the numerous youtube reviews when it came out. So I am up to date on events, but no interest in watching. Especially when I wanted a sequel after all this time. Not a jump-around midquel that seems moot after the first & second.

[Veitha]

Happy that Shaw is relevant again and being a force. For far to long he was seen as a joke similar to how Sabretooth is now. And in this era where practically every x-villian is now basically a good guy its refreshing to see one still being bad and being a credible threat. Shaw is a great character and deserves more than being a joke or a jobber. He should be a force and a powerful enemy, one can only hope that Sabretooth gets a resurgence back to villian prominence again.

Doubtful Emma can shutdown Krakoa's economy. Xavier is richer than her, owns the companies that produces the drugs and there are other wealthy mutants who can step in to replace Emma as head of transportation. Roberto, Warren, Shan or even Shaw himself. And as far as the political front, Ororo, Jean or Magneto could step in as ambassador. Outside of Moira, Xavier, Doug and the Five and certain replacements no one is essential to Krakoa.

She still has the exclusive on distribution. That's power. She must have put some clauses in her contract to gain advantage of it. Plus Erik and Charles want her to be in charge and "have a tight leash" on her side of the council. They don't want Shaw to be in charge and I doubt Charles would take Kitty being killed lightly.

[Tycon]

X-Black, I mainly recall Emma killing him with relative ease. So anything before is moot imo. You gotta stick your landing. lol

Our opinions on characters & story will always differ, so we'd have to agree to disagree here. I am of the mindset that majority of the X-Men villains suck. Until they turn good. lol The Rogue's Gallery needs a lot of work in general.

No, context matters. Shaw was beating Emma right before that, but was weak from Mothervine and paralyzed by the poison. Shaw absorbed ambient energy around him and was never able to let it out because.... he was paralyzed.

[Npresh24]

I'm actually hoping Emma knew to stay 2 steps ahead of Shaw , I doubt she actually trusts her brother but she loves him but will still use him as a pawn. I actually think Emma set up this all up minus Kate's mishaps to flush out Shaw and possibly replace him with Shinobi. I am also intrigued as to why Cordelia Frost is still missing giving her active position in the Hellfire Club and being Emma's little sister. The ending and given his connection to Emma as well this would be the perfect moment for Namor to reappear with his mutant brethren.

I'm still super curious to The Knights of The Hellfire Trading Company , we possibly know White is Callisto but I wanna know who Black and Red will be My first guesses would be Lady Mastermind or Cordelia Frost respectfully for Black Knight and Iceman/Namor or maybe Hellion for Red Knight.

[JB]

I'm so relieved this issue wasn't spoiled prior to my obtaining my hard copy. Wow. Gut punch. First Lock then Kate. That ending was SAVAGE.
Its really incredible how -- with the resurrections available-- and Kate being such a prominent character, that this shredded me the way that it did.
Well done Duggan. I've thoroughly enjoyed Marauders and can't wait to see how Shaw's plans unravel (or not) moving forward. So many questions.

Same here. I felt bad for Kate and found it hard to see her die (?) even if she can come back. If done right, watching our heroes die will always feel heavy for me regardless of resurrections.