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  1. #1
    Mighty Member Shai-Hulud's Avatar
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    Default Eternals (616) vs DC Villains

    Team Eternal: Ikaris, Makkari, Sersi, Thena, and Zuras

    vs

    Team DCV: Amazo, Black Adam, Cheetah, Despero, and Sinestro.

    For DC Villains, answer for Post-Crisis versions, current versions, or both, as you specify.

    Standard arena match.

    * If this is a stomp for Team Eternal, remove one or more Eternals until you think it's an even match.

    * If this is a stomp for Team DCV, remove one or more villains until you think it's an even match.
    Last edited by Shai-Hulud; 01-24-2020 at 08:00 AM. Reason: spelling oops

  2. #2
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Can Amazo dupe their powers? If he can, well, that makes him Makkari fast, Sersi level at transmutation and Zuras level at everything else. Bad news for the Eternals. If he can.

    Does bloodlust mean that Makkari comes out and blitzes at Runner speed, even though he can't come back from that? I think that it would, so he's capable of blitzing Cheetah out, then pinballing the others around until Sersi and Zuras can turn them into teacups. I don't know that he can hit hard enough to kill the others, but he's certainly much faster when amped to his silly level, and more than tough enough to deal with any occasional thunderclaps and such while he's pinballing them off arena walls with impunity.

    Zuras, notably, is supposed to be solid Skyfather level, though he rarely shows feats at that level. Give him that, and he solos. I just don't know that I give him that.
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  3. #3
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    The problem here is that while Makkari is faster than anyone here and not in a small way if he indeed decides to go all "Ultimate Speed" (so long as you put stock in that), but the only person he can hurt is Cheetah. So while that blitzes her out, there's not a whole hell of a lot he can do to the others beyond having a comparative eternity to wait before he has to start moving people out of the way of Black Adam's attacks.

    It's a weird fight that comes down to if Amazo can dupe the Eternals I suppose. You can make arguments either way there.

    The thing of Zuras is that he just hasn't done very much of anything, it's mostly statements. If you take seriously that fight he had with Marvel Zeus though, he can ultimately just blow up the area until everyone dies.

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    Amazo can duplicate their powers just fine, judging by the way he can copy powers from everybody in the JLA, whether they are human, alien, robot, whatever. Does he start with any duplicated powers? Is his baseline durability enough to survive a Makkari blitz?

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member Slade1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shellhead View Post
    Amazo can duplicate their powers just fine, judging by the way he can copy powers from everybody in the JLA, whether they are human, alien, robot, whatever. Does he start with any duplicated powers? Is his baseline durability enough to survive a Makkari blitz?
    At fight start he would have all their powers so I don't think it matters. Hell, he can copy his teammates' powers as well.

  6. #6
    Mighty Member Shai-Hulud's Avatar
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    If Amazo can copy the powers of Team Eternal, what about the Uni-Mind?

    Could Makkari do a super-speed Uni-Mind formation?

    I'd guess Amazo couldn't duplicate that (don't know, really) as it's a gestalt whose final power total is greater than the sum of its parts.

    At least, I think the Uni-Mind works that way....

    Opinions on this generally or specifically?

  7. #7
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shai-Hulud View Post
    If Amazo can copy the powers of Team Eternal, what about the Uni-Mind?

    Could Makkari do a super-speed Uni-Mind formation?

    I'd guess Amazo couldn't duplicate that (don't know, really) as it's a gestalt whose final power total is greater than the sum of its parts.

    At least, I think the Uni-Mind works that way....

    Opinions on this generally or specifically?
    I don’t think you can start the Uni-Mind with one Eternal, so Mak would have to wait for the others to catch up, by which time Black Adam and Cheetah have ripped them to shreds.

    The whole thing really comes down to whether the real Zuras is the anecdotal badass who went toe-to-toe with Zeus or the homeless wino dude who’s otherwise nothing much in particular.

  8. #8
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    The problem here is that while Makkari is faster than anyone here and not in a small way if he indeed decides to go all "Ultimate Speed" (so long as you put stock in that), but the only person he can hurt is Cheetah. So while that blitzes her out, there's not a whole hell of a lot he can do to the others beyond having a comparative eternity to wait before he has to start moving people out of the way of Black Adam's attacks.

    It's a weird fight that comes down to if Amazo can dupe the Eternals I suppose. You can make arguments either way there.

    The thing of Zuras is that he just hasn't done very much of anything, it's mostly statements. If you take seriously that fight he had with Marvel Zeus though, he can ultimately just blow up the area until everyone dies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    I don’t think you can start the Uni-Mind with one Eternal, so Mak would have to wait for the others to catch up, by which time Black Adam and Cheetah have ripped them to shreds.

    The whole thing really comes down to whether the real Zuras is the anecdotal badass who went toe-to-toe with Zeus or the homeless wino dude who’s otherwise nothing much in particular.
    Yup, the Zuras question is the big one - if he's all that, he solos, as that's also out of Amazo's ability to dupe IIRC. If not...

    Like I stated above, the only real chance is if Makkari can somehow just knock Adam & Co. around long enough for Sersi to get going. He can't really dish permanent damage, but can he distract? Based on how Marvel treats speedsters, I'd say no. Based on how DC treats them (human strength Flashes punch down with class 100s), I'd say yes.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta

    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."
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    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Slade1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Yup, the Zuras question is the big one - if he's all that, he solos, as that's also out of Amazo's ability to dupe IIRC.
    Not really, Amazo has copied the Worlogog.

  10. #10
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slade1 View Post
    Not really, Amazo has copied the Worlogog.
    But is that his usual level? ISTR arguments that such things were generally out of his range. I don't pretend to know, I'm just going by that.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta

    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."
    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

  11. #11
    Swiss army nerd
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    But is that his usual level? ISTR arguments that such things were generally out of his range. I don't pretend to know, I'm just going by that.
    This is a tricky question as there have been multiple Amazos, certainly at the time period in DC where he absorbed the Worlogog (Peyer's Hourman, great book.)

    There was the Amazo from that Hourman run, and another Amazo who was designed to copy the abilities of whatever era Justice League he came up against. (the league kept bringing in members to fight him, which just made him stronger.)

    So yeah, I have no idea how to benchmark a regular Amazo.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Slade1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    But is that his usual level? ISTR arguments that such things were generally out of his range. I don't pretend to know, I'm just going by that.
    There has been zero instances where he has failed to copy powers IIRC. I don't see him having a problem copying Zuras' powers.

    However, if we take out Amazo, then look at Pen's post.

  13. #13
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slade1 View Post
    There has been zero instances where he has failed to copy powers IIRC. I don't see him having a problem copying Zuras' powers.

    However, if we take out Amazo, then look at Pen's post.
    I hear you, just that if he's usually copying kryptonians at the high end, that's not going to let him copy a skyfather. That's why I ask.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta

    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."
    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

  14. #14
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    I hear you, just that if he's usually copying kryptonians at the high end, that's not going to let him copy a skyfather. That's why I ask.
    No, but if the Worlogog and an unending parade of Justice Leaguers are two of his feats and there’s nothing to contradict them, and preferably if there are other similarly-high feats, then that’s becoming his norm, and Zuras is fecked.

  15. #15
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    No, but if the Worlogog and an unending parade of Justice Leaguers are two of his feats and there’s nothing to contradict them, and preferably if there are other similarly-high feats, then that’s becoming his norm, and Zuras is fecked.
    I'm totally OK with that. Though it does seem like DC's writing themselves into a corner again.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta

    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."
    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

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