Can Black Cat Ever Escape Her 'Catwoman Ripoff' Status?

[Agent Z]

Apparently one of the reasons certain creators and fans don't take Felicia seriously is because she is seen as nothing more than Catwoman estarz.Personally I think there are enough nuances between the two i.e Felicia carrying the mantle for her father and spending more time as a legitimate hero for a while. Marvel has a lot of DC pastiches that they have elevated through good writing (Deadpool and Hawkeye come to mind). Do you think it's possible for them to do the same thing with Felicia?

[Vworp Vworp]

I honestly never really considered them all that similar meself. Sure they share a cat motif, which in turn is an obvious link to their cat-burglary. And they're both in love/hate relationships with the male heroes from which they were 'created'. But that aside, I've never really considered them alike. Felicia has powers, Selina doesn't. Felicia was more heroic... and is now more psychopathic (sigh), whereas Selina's always been rooted in the middle-ground, never quite as obvious a hero and nowhere near as bat-crap crazy (no pun intended) as poor Felicia is currently being portrayed as. Personality too, Felicia is... was more fun-loving Selina'd generally more.. I don't know, more mature, more adult.

At the end of the day, there are numerous comic book characters, male and female, new and old that have a lot in common with their Marvel/DC counterparts. Felicia and Selina aren't the only characters to share a few traits, and they won't be the last either.

[Speed Force League Unlimited]

Did Felicia ever take a pet cat? Selina has one

[Thinker4730]

I honestly never really considered them all that similar meself. Sure they share a cat motif, which in turn is an obvious link to their cat-burglary. And they're both in love/hate relationships with the male heroes from which they were 'created'. But that aside, I've never really considered them alike. Felicia has powers, Selina doesn't. Felicia was more heroic... and is now more psychopathic (sigh), whereas Selina's always been rooted in the middle-ground, never quite as obvious a hero and nowhere near as bat-crap crazy (no pun intended) as poor Felicia is currently being portrayed as. Personality too, Felicia is... was more fun-loving Selina'd generally more.. I don't know, more mature, more adult.

At the end of the day, there are numerous comic book characters, male and female, new and old that have a lot in common with their Marvel/DC counterparts. Felicia and Selina aren't the only characters to share a few traits, and they won't be the last either.

Does the comic version of Selina have nine lives like her movie counterpart in Batman Returns?

If she does then that could definitely count as having a power.

[Highland Chicken]

She hasn't already?

[Rahul]

I'm not sure about this, but I read somewhere that the whole 'villainess romantic entanglement with the hero' bit was started by Black Cat in the early days. Back then, Catwoman was a full fledged villain(somewhere before the first Crisis event). Then somehow after Post Crisis, Catwoman stole that bit from Black Cat and it has become part of the character, making that particular trope even more popular than Black Cat ever did.

So yeah, what made Black Cat unique is gone. Even if she did come up with it first.

[The Red Monk]

I'm not sure about this, but I read somewhere that the whole 'villainess romantic entanglement with the hero' bit was started by Black Cat in the early days. Back then, Catwoman was a full fledged villain(somewhere before the first Crisis event). Then somehow after Post Crisis, Catwoman stole that bit from Black Cat and it has become part of the character, making that particular trope even more popular than Black Cat ever did.

So yeah, what made Black Cat unique is gone. Even if she did come up with it first.

You read wrong. Catwoman was doing the on-and-off, sexually charged flirting with Batman way before Black Cat first appeared.

[ed2962]

I'm not sure about this, but I read somewhere that the whole 'villainess romantic entanglement with the hero' bit was started by Black Cat in the early days. Back then, Catwoman was a full fledged villain(somewhere before the first Crisis event). Then somehow after Post Crisis, Catwoman stole that bit from Black Cat and it has become part of the character, making that particular trope even more popular than Black Cat ever did.

So yeah, what made Black Cat unique is gone. Even if she did come up with it first.

I think folks who don't even read comics have some awareness of the Catwoman/batman thing going back to at least the 60's. Felicia didn't appear until years later. However, I think I remember reading that Marv Wolfman's (BC's creator) original plan was for Black Cat to be a Spider Woman villan. When that didn't happen, he moved her over to Spider Man.

[Darthfury78]

I think folks who don't even read comics have some awareness of the Catwoman/batman thing going back to at least the 60's. Felicia didn't appear until years later. However, I think I remember reading that Marv Wolfman's (BC's creator) original plan was for Black Cat to be a Spider Woman villan. When that didn't happen, he moved her over to Spider Man.

And now Slott wants to make Felicia into a permanent Spider-Man villain for no reason whatsoever. However, according to him, Joe Kelly retconed Felicia Hardy's character, as well as returning her bad luck powers by Dr. Trauma. I guess that Quesada instructed him that he was not to make Spider-Man reveal his secret identity to the Black Cat. I suppose that Joe Q wanted to bring Black Cat to how she was when she first met Spider-Man by not allowing her to know the man behind the mask.

[Rahul]

This excerpt from Comicbookmovie.com states it very well.

These two are a very interesting pair. I was actually very surprised at what I learned from this. Black Cat and Catwoman, it would seem, have everything in common. Being that Catwoman's first appearance predates Black Cat by almost forty years, and they are virtually the same character by today's standards, by proxy you would think that Black Cat is a complete rip off of Catwoman. This is actually a HUGE misconception. Let me explain. Back in 1979, Marv Wolfman was looking for a new villain for Spider-Man. He decided to base his creation off of an old Tex Avery cartoon called "Bad Luck Blackie". Bad Luck Blackie was a black cat that brought misfortune to anyone that was close in proximity. Black Cat is a cat burglar in the Marvel universe. She wears very low cut, tight leather costumes, a mask, and has claws at the tips of her fingers on her gloves. She is very nimble and agile, which helps her in her cat burglaries. She also has a love interest in Spider-Man.

At first glance, this sounds almost exactly like Selina Kyle's Catwoman. However, at that time in Batman comics, Catwoman was only known as "The Cat" and she was nothing more than a pickpocket in a green dress with no mask. It was not until 1987 in Frank Miller's Batman: Year One, almost a decade AFTER Black Cat's appearance in comics, that Catwoman became the tight leather and mask wearing, clawed cat burglar that we know her as today. So if either of these characters are guilty of copying the other, one would have to say its Catwoman that is the copy-CAT. (See what I did there, again? I'm on a roll!) Mostly because at the time that Black Cat was created, she had almost no resemblance to the Catwoman in comics at that time. Presently both characters are identical. They are both high profile cat burglars that operate in tight leather, are extremely agile, and they are both love interests in their respective do-gooders lives. Pretty interesting, would you not agree?

Of course, this may have been a whole Man Thing- Swamp Thing bit rather than outright copying.

[Mister Mets]

This excerpt from Comicbookmovie.com states it very well.




Of course, this may have been a whole Man Thing- Swamp Thing bit rather than outright copying.

I think the writer assumes that Catwoman hadn't changed between her appearance in Batman #1 and Batman: Year One.

At the very least, she quickly got a mask.



She was quite known for wearing leather in the 60s.



There are instances where the influence goes back and forth. Norman Osborn isn't Lex Luthor with pumpkin bombs, and Lex has followed Norman to the premiere superteam. It wouldn't surprise me if there are elements of the Black Cat that DC used for Catwoman.

[ed2962]

This excerpt from Comicbookmovie.com states it very well.




Of course, this may have been a whole Man Thing- Swamp Thing bit rather than outright copying.

No offense, but the bolded is not correct at all. The writer is mis-informed.

[ed2962]

I think the writer assumes that Catwoman hadn't changed between her appearance in Batman #1 and Batman: Year One.

At the very least, she quickly got a mask.



She was quite known for wearing leather in the 60s.



There are instances where the influence goes back and forth. Norman Osborn isn't Lex Luthor with pumpkin bombs, and Lex has followed Norman to the premiere superteam. It wouldn't surprise me if there are elements of the Black Cat that DC used for Catwoman.

If anything, Marvel subverted the trope by having Felicia in love with Spiderman yet disliking Peter. But yeah, DC was working this bit before marvel.

[Darthfury78]

If anything, Marvel subverted the trope by having Felicia in love with Spiderman yet disliking Peter. But yeah, DC was working this bit before marvel.

The problem was that Felicia didn't get to really know Peter Parker until after he ended their relationship before she had the chance to do so. It was said that later down the line, Felicia fell in love with Peter Parker and came to realize that Spider-Man was just a costume he wears to fight crime. If Felicia actually dislike Peter so much, why did she go to Daredevil or Puma a lot sooner; or even Tony Stark/Justin Hammer? It was Peter who made Felicia grow up into a better person before OMD; not Spider-Man.

Here is the link that should clear things up between Spider-Man x Black Cat.

http://www.chasingamazingblog.com/20...k-cat-romance/

[exile001]

Does the comic version of Selina have nine lives like her movie counterpart in Batman Returns?

If she does then that could definitely count as having a power.

No, she doesn't. Selina doesn't have any powers.

Little has ever been done to remove Felicia from being based on Catwoman.

The furthest she got was probably being Spider-man's partner in the 80s, but the last decade or so she has been more like Catwoman than ever, especially since Brubaker's soft-reboot version.

Felicia is a great character, though, so I'm happy that she stuck and became so popular. I hope the current turn is some kind of fake-out.